The Super Guy Match-Up Thread: Check First Posts! (Updated: 01-24-2011)

Oh, I agree. For the longest time, I couldn’t get cr.MP to work properly as an anti-air, but after many, many, many painful jump-in attacks followed by combos, I finally figured it out. cr.MP beats a lot of jump-ins when spaced and timed properly. Still isn’t consistent against Shoto j.HP, though. :tdown:

…and, that might be why I haven’t had success with it. Haha. If it works for you at that specific jump distance and others can confirm their own success, I think it’s definitely something all Guy players should consider. Even if I feel that I’m understanding Boxer match up better, it always be tough. I’m sure others feel the same way.

Like Cheech Wizard, I’ve only had some success with cr.HP as an anti-air against Boxer. st.HK is very inconsistent for me, and more often than not, it loses. However, I do want to give cl.HK a try. If it comes out fast enough (or the player’s reaction is fast enough), it seems like a good anti-air because of its high hit box.


In other news, I’ve been slacking with thread updates, I know. School’s been kicking my butt so much that I’ve just wanted to browse the forums and play SSFIV. I’ll try to update tomorrow night. :tup:

Ok fellas I was watching Peaceful Jays stream and i saw a fairly decent guy user loose to the scrubbiest excuse for a gen EVER! I talked to him and he said it was because of lack of match-up experience/knowledge so Im here to break it down for yall

Gens Frame data

Gens Mantis Mp is +5 on block and only takes 4 frames to come out…(yea its a dumb move)…dont bother trying to attack after blocking the first one because on ch he gets a free mantis sweep. The move itself as pushback so he can only get 2 out before having to walk forward,thats when you want to take an action.

If you see gens Jumping crane mk (the funcky jumping splits kick)…its 99% of the time a cross up so just block the other way…no gen uses it to land in front, and if they do its an accident.

Gens Crane Jumping RH (his longest reaching air move) hits TWICE and you MUST STAND to block both of them! So if you block the first kick and think you can go back to crouch blocking for the second hit, you are going to eat some damage! STAND UP FOR BOTH KICKS!

Gens oga kicks (wall dives) armor break so dont bother focusing, just block them, they are NOT safe…i repeat they are NOT NOT NOT safe at ALL, read the frame data posted above and punish appropriately. This goes for the vertical drop kick as well.

Gens rolls are -3 on block and the moves that combo into the rolls are 4 frames (cr.lp) and 5 frames (cr. mp) so throw out a crouching short or jab to prevent that gimmicky “oh im gonna roll, throw out a poke and roll again” non sense. *NOTE The roll Can be Fadc’d

Gens Crane Cr wk (the little kick that launches you into super) is HEAVILY punishable on block. DO NOT i repeat DO NOT let scrubby gen users do that and get away with it.

Gens jump arc’s arent the same as in vanilla. There is only 1 jump arc that covers both stances rather than a separate jump for each stance. So dont worry about being knocked down and having to guess jump arcs…shit aint gonna happen

Gens pokes are faster than yours for the most part, so on the ground id say he wins the fight if hes smart and a solid linker, but you win the air fight with command elbow and air throw.

His mantis low mk and his mantis standing mp should stuff all of your run stop mixups if timed correctly.

!!!1 of gens many weak points is that he needs to fight an poke straight up to deal damage, and the damage he deals isnt that great. Hes Good once he gets in when being used by a strong player, but he doesnt overly exceed in the act of getting in safely, he has to take HUGE most of the time. So if you have a life lead you do not have to fight him straight up! You can run stop bait and Command elbow your way to victory.

Gen has no true reversal anymore because ex oga has NO invincibility anymore. His Waterfall kicks cant be thrown on startup anymore but they are only invincible in the ex’ version.

Gen doesnt have the mk hands loop on every character anymore. He can still mp/fp hands and mp/mk hands but cant repeat without burning meter and half the time its not worth it. Dont worry about blocking hands for chip, it only does 4 chip and its a ONE TIME CHIP. This means it ONLY CHIPS YOU FOR 4 DAMAGE no matter how long he does it, you will only loose a total of 4 DAMGE lol.

Gens Crane walk speed can be intimidating its 5th in the game i believe but thats ONLY in Crane. So while walking at max speed he has no true preassure due to the fact that Crane is a charge stance and has no good pokes. Gen will have to Hit PPP to apply pressure from that walk speed, so you have an edge.

Gens Standing Overhead Is Crane mp, its range is Excellent and is only -3 on block…it looks the same as his Standing Crane Fp which hits LOW first but Fp is -5 on block

Gens Kara throw is 3rd best in the game and is done with Mk…it works good for mp pressure, but the pressure can be avoided by simply back dashing as gen doesnt have a really good back-dash catching normal

Gens Dash is low to the ground and quick so dashing under your jumps is easy for him, but command elbow makes that risky.

His mantis Super (dash thru multiple hitting) Has decreasing invincibility. Wp has a great deal but only goes 2 character spaces, mp has a moderate deal and only goes 3, and fp has NONE but it goes 5 character spaces. Depending on your distance and which button the gen user choses he will either go through you on block or stop in front of you…which is why most gen users us mp mantis super, it almost always goes through has decent invincibility and puts him at a minimal punishment distance. This super can be combo’d into, by a majority of his mantis normals.

His Mantis Ultra 1 Is just an Ultra version of his super, it goes 5 character spaces, and DOESN’T GO THROUGH on block. Its heavily punishable and only has 1 frame of invincibility.

His Mantis Ultra 2 is complete and utter shit! It can be combo’d into just like the Ultra1 but it can be ducked so using it as a wake up ultra in desperate situations is wasted. If it hits you it knocks you back and leaves you with a LARGE amount of GREY health that you will gain back over time. Just run away till you get it back, if the gen user hits you with it, he will ALWAYS start an offensive push. ALWAYS! He CANNOT! i repeat CANNOT CHIP YOU with grey health, so if you see and wall dive then do NOT be afraid to block it, just kill him for it afterwards!

Gens Crane super is actually good. It is an Anti Air super that grabs you and slams you and it HURTS! It has a full invulnerability on start up and it starts up in 1 frame so it CANT be safe jumped so if he has super just apply ground pressure on wake up. The different Strengths determine angle of the super RH being a 60 degree angle MK being a 70 degree and WK being an 80 degree angle. The damage dealt is the same with each kick.

**His crane Ultra1 **Is just like his Crane super, Anti air that grabs you but he takes you for a whirlwind ride before tossing you to his back side. It CAN be safe jumped but the hitbox in front of it is HUGE! Not so much on the backside of it tho. It always goes at a 70 degree angle.

His Crane Ultra2 is Probably his best new addition, its an AIR 2 AIR Ultra that has invincibility ONLY on start up but it does a GRIP of damage! It is OVERHEAD so if you see an ultra flash in the air STAND UP AND BLOCK! Any Air move below it gets smashed, where as any air move above it beats it out clean If you can command elbow bait it then good for you! GO FOR IT :rofl: but i dunno if its worth the risk to you. I personally TK (tiger knee) this ultra to punish runs and run stops on reaction so run if the gen your playing is solid and at a higher level than scrubby xbl gens then i dont recommend run stopping on a gen with a loaded Ultra2.

This pretty much sums up the Gen match up for yall do with it what you will, and if you run into an online gen and happen to Destroy him thanks to this info then simply message him and tell him that his ass woopin was courtesy of ARIEZ…STOP USING HIS CHARACTER IGNORANTLY AND LEARN TO PLAY! :rock:

Lol. He was talking about me. Good stuff, Ariez.

I already did a writeup for Gen lols

Well mine is better :arazz:

okay mr fancy pants youre cool lol

I recently started using s.hk on Dhalsim to punish those cheeky tk teleports where he tries to get in behind you. Works great and usually scores a counterhit too. For me anyway, I can’t always react fast enough with a hk tatsu or tk izuna so in this situation s.hk is my go to move.

I love using run slide to beat out Dhalsim’s crouching fierce.

what most dhalsims dont know about is that crouch HP beats all of guys jump ins from any range.

jumping elbow feints dont work from a distance =/

You shouldn’t be jumping in on Sim anyways apart from wake up,

im not jumping at him, im trying to feint. elbow beats or trades all of his pokes.

I have tons of sim experience, im playing agains one oft the best sims in canada =P

[media=youtube]Xed0yO3hANc[/media]

posted in the video thread but i think it belongs here too.

again honda cannot normal throw guy and guy is able to neutral jump his ochio

Tsukimiya showed that ex izuna can grab chun’s backdash and ex BSK after a runslide safe jump. He delays the jump abit after the runslide…

He does it here tsukimiya 10/17/10 10:23AM PST, 10/17/10 10:23AM PST tsukimiya on USTREAM. Xbox at 2:09:00.

Im guessing it would work on a few other backdashes too.

Nice, but not even remotely practical.

Why not? If you’ve got Chun scared to use EX SBK on wakeup, it makes approaching her from the air notably easier…

You’d be surprised the EX SBK is useful as its the same way as doing htat to Ryu’s Shoryuken, and to be honest most players will probably attempt to backdash your Safe jump attempt which the EX Izuna will nullify it and instead of them getting some distance or a reset/KD from a slide if you see the backdash you’ll get a KD with 170/180 damage on top of it, You can use the regular Izuna if you dont want to waste the meter if you suspect a backdash.

Works on Juri’s backdash

You can just option select a slide off the safe jump setup.

If she does the ex SBK, you get a full combo for no meter instead of wasting a bar. If she backdashes, you still get a knockdown; for no meter.

If she doesn’t do anything and you went for EX Izuna, you just wasted meter for nothing and might get punished.

I mean where’s the incentive? It’s cool, but it’s totally not worth the risk. Just like 95% of these “awesome” izuna setups.

Truth^^

Its not something you always do, its just another option,

I’ll definitely update the thread this weekend. Hopefully, I’ll be able to post up some information about the Ken, Fei Long, and Dee Jay match ups too.