I don’t think any of us have held ourselves out as HF experts, and if it’s seemed like I was doing that, that definitely wasn’t my intention. But based on my limited experience and the listings and matchups of the old school American players, none of which have Honda winning the matchup against Guile or showing up in even the top 5 overall, let alone beating Guile 7-3 and having the #1 spot in the whole game. Something would have to be found that fundamentally changes the way Honda plays, but we haven’t heard anything about that, and Honda’s crossup games certainly aren’t it. Unless we hear about something like that, yeah, I’m gonna keep T Akiba’s rankings tossed out my window.
One thing I’ll say in defense of Honda being better than we typically think he is, is that I can’t remember any big name Honda players in the US. Obviously, some people play him, but I don’t think he’s ever been pushed hard here.
Check out this video. I realize this is O.Honda in ST, but the basics are the same. Notice how this guy plays no-nonsense and just trades and spaces to overpower all his bad matchups. I do think that Honda’s better than we give him credit for. And part of me is with Brian. While the Akiba ratings sound crazy, and certainly aren’t what I’d rate things, I’m nowhere near an expert at this game. So half of me wants to give that chart the benefit of the doubt. The other half thinks it’s nuts 
Nah, we had big Honda players, like Bob Painter and Chris Li. Also, that link isn’t working, but O Honda’s up-close pressure is actually a little different from and better than Turbo Honda’s due to O Honda’s cancelable standing and crouching jab, different hitboxes on jab and jab slaps, and faster startup on the slaps.
whatever, Americans suck.
It’s too bad that link doesn’t work. But he didn’t really use the cancelling much at all. Most of his game plan was to get close and use RH, seemingly on reaction, to trade for bigger damage and a knockdown for every fireball or poke that was thrown out. He used some jabs and other stuff of course, but a big part of his game plan wasn’t anything fancy at all. It was just “I’m gonna beat you up now. K?” :wgrin:
EDIT: The vid I was trying to link to was of Shogatsu at Shirone Chance. It was part of a set of vids nohoho posted. Maybe someone else knows of a working link?
I haven’t read this whole discussion but I think this alone makes it not a 7-3 matchup in favor of honda. And you being a guile player forever and a good one, I’m surprised you would agree just because of this 100 percent factor and because the old japanese rankings say so.
This is all your fault crayfish, if only you posted the right vids! 
j/k of course
Tomo and Jeff Schaeffer almost exclusively used Guile in the prime of HF. Had E.Honda had such a dominate match against Guile why did they keep on using him and winning? Why is it that they ranked E.Honda so low? T.Akiba is a respected source on data from SF2 (damage equations, frame data etc…) but he isn’t a top player, and certainly isn’t in the league of Tomo or Jeff in their prime in the golden age of SF2. I’d take Tomo or Jeffs opinions on match ups over T.Akiba anyday.
BTW general rankings for HF back in the heyday of Guile vs Honda was 7-3 Guile.
i was seriously waiting for that . I knew it was coming sooner or later because the only reason i could think of that you’d put so much weight into those rankings without seeing any of their is just because it’s a japanese ranking chart.
While i won’t argue that honda can really pull of this sequence vs guile, i’m not gonna blindly say the match up is 7-3 when all i’ve ever seen is honda get zoned to death.
I never said I had 100% faith in the Japanese ranking chart.
In reality its more like 80% faith.
So maybe its 6-4 Honda. Maybe theres an off chance its even 5/5 Honda. Anyway, stop yer whining Honda players ;P. Meh, Im going to try to own non-shotos this week with Honda and see what happens.
What if instead of American matchup charts… they were Canadian?
Edit: SweetJohnnyV, I have those Shogatsu vids, he plays O Honda like no one else. But like I said, O Honda is pretty different from HF Honda, both in his pressure games and in the way he gets in (can actually use buttslam now and again). Shogatsu is ridiculously good, and he makes me wanna play O Honda, but don’t read his success into the potential success of HF Honda.
Street Fighter 2 Hyper Fighting… Does this game have Dee Jay, T Hawk, Fei Long and Cammy? Or is it the one after Championship Edition?
HF was the one after CE.
Super Street Fighter 2 was the one that introduced DJ, T.Hawk, CAmmy and Fei Long.
Oh! I could SSSOOOOOOO beast all of you at this game! :rock:
I own it for PS2: Capcom Classics Collection! I play it all the time! This version, and the anniversary edition, where I only pick Super Turbo Version characters. Great diversion from CvS2, MvC2, 3rd Strike and of course Tekken. :tup:
Ah, interesting to know. For some reason, I figured SSF2 Honda was probably a lot like HF Honda. At any rate, I still think a lot of the basics apply. And yeah Shogatsu is a beast! He almost makes me wanna main Honda too :wgrin:
I’ve seeked out some of these vids too. In the ones I saw he beat Kurahashi’s CE Guile using some of the grab sequences weve discussed including:
BearHug, crssovr j.MK, s.LP, KneeGrab, safe j.LK, Grab
He also beat a ST Guile too, but in the vids he won all the matches, including Shotos, so obv need to see more specific Guile matches to have a balanced view, preferably in AE against CE Guile.
UltraDavid, I thought HF and O.Honda were very similar too… I know cancelable c.LP makes for some more options in close, and that Buttslam doesn’t hit on the way up, which I much prefer for getting in and pressure games, but what else is different?
Crayfish.:china:
For E Honda in HF, is jump roundhouse>st roundhouse (dbl hit) an unstoppable combo? When I try, I get sac thrown, if it works, what is the correct distance?
Cancelable far standing jab, cancelable crouching jab, cancelable crouching fierce, faster startup on slaps, faster startup on headbutt, and very different buttslam. Some hitboxes are probably different too, but I don’t know HF Honda well enough to be able to say for sure.
And Chaghatai, just time jumping roundhouse late and kinda up close, and you’ll be able to do the combo.
Danm, poor knowledge. Then he’s saying that he beasts all of us.
God Danm!
Well I must say, when all is said and done this little Honda - Guile incident has, for all its melodrama, been most stimulating. Sometimes I think it takes disagrement to provide the motivation to really test things out fully. I’ve certainly learned alot 
Here is a litlle movie I’ve put together that I like to think of as the fruit of the last few days debate. This is the first combo/tutorial/instructional type vid I’ve made, quite excited…
*the timing of some of the sequences isn’t super tight because I was having to control Guile with my toes on keyboard as I executed the sequences with Honda on my pad…
[media=youtube]pB1_TIoJy1o[/media]
Mid screen sequence (mixup the order) badboy:
1.)HP Hold,jf.MK(crossover),s.LP,HK Hold,jf.LK,s.LP,HP Hold, walk-under,s.LK…
Corner sequence 01 - Keep em in:badboy:
2.)MP throw,meaty c.LP,HP Hold, walk-under,c.HK,MK Sumodrop,MP throw(back into corner) -repeat meaty c.LP,HP hold…
Corner sequence 02 - Keep em in:badboy:
3.)MP throw,meaty c.LP,HP Hold,walk-under,s.LP,MP Throw(back into corner) - repeat meaty c.LP, HP Hold…
Combo option 01 - TOD badboy:
Two versions shown, the seconds has Guile taking two hits of the HHS before dizzy.
4.)HP Hold,jf.MK(crossover),s.MK(2hit)xxHHS
As UltraDavid has stated, Honda has no way to ‘option select’, he must choose a single option from the off.
Thanks, wow thats alot. I wondered why the Shogatsu Guy was choosing O.Honda in stead of the more damaging CPS1 alteratives… I think alot of the stuff you see him doing is workable with slight adjustment/compensation for HF Honda’s differences. As already said the basics principles are the same. Hope more of his AE matches turn up
Crayfish.:china:
I had the chance to play Hyper Fighting over nfba today
I played LeRaldo
He is very good
He beat me like… 40-2 (seriously) :looney::lol::wasted:
Here is the nfba recording file
I don’t know how to change it into a Youtube avi file, and it’s over 1 hour long of me getting owned.