I’m not sure whether that affects anything, but it might. Also whether Guile ducks when he gets hit by the follow-up jab might. Too bad I don’t have access to HF right now, I’d love to help test.
Honda can’t combo like that in HF, but he can do crossup forward, standing jab xx jab slaps, which is worth, I don’t know, a third of your life? I forget offhand. Whatever it is, it’s way less than 100%.
does honda have any way of comboing into a headbutt after a crossup forward?
Or comboing into a butt drop?
Here is the translated page:
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html
hmm maybe its not segregated as I remember and all the data they have is on one page… Anyway here is the T.Akiba SF2 section:
http://games.t-akiba.net/sf2/sf2ind.html
Perhaps the individual move frame data came from the Yoga Book Hyper, which is almost ST exclusive… Anyone set this straight?
In HF after a crossover Honda can combo, s.MK(2hit)xxHHS (&HHS will connect).
In ST he can do s.LP,s.HK(2hit) but I dunno if this is possible in HF.
Same goes for s.LP,s.MP,s.HPsweep (which would be c.HP in HF)
I think s.MP, s.LPxxHHS is possible… (dont know if the HHS will hit or only chip tho)
More testing needed, and as U can see from my matches, combos are a weakpoint… anyone.
Btw, tested the Bearhug,up fwd+MK crossover… its damn good on Guile and seems to work for Sim too. Again, Im testing on my own and against CPU atm. Looking forward to more on this 
Crayfish, those rankings are based on SNES and Geneesis versions? I’m asking because Blanka loses his jumping FP. pimp slap in the SNES version (don’t know about the Genesis). That move alone would move him up a notch or two. 
~Decoy
I dont care about HHS combos, I want to know if theres a way to combo into a butt drop or a headbutt
I can’t imagine that they are, all the other data for the games is based on the arcade versions. Logical thinking tho, coss the Snes - Gen versions have alot of quirks that might effect the rankings. Btw some moves dont have thier proper animation, like Guile’s jump up HP (they use the jump fwd/bk animation) but the hitbox is the same as the arcade version, ie you can do the ‘magic’ jump up, HP on the way down counter to Sagat’s low Tiger shot.
I always wondered if the close combat fighters were weaker overall in the 16bit versions, because the fighters are seems smaller in relation to the size of the playfield, giving them more distance to have to cover…?
I just consulted the GamePro HF guide and it seems you can combo a c.MP into Headbutt. It says
"Charge down-back and throw a crouching strong, then immediately begin the Headbutt motion. Note: this move requires precise timing!"
*So in theory you should be able to combo this, as holding uf, during the hug would give you ample charge time.
There is no way to combo the Sumo Splash afaik…
Crayfish.:china:
Anyone up for a few fights (free wins!) any time in the next three hours or so?
When are you guys mostly on?
Where are you guys located?
I’m usually on at night, Pacific Standard, located in Norcal.
I usually end up playing 3S because most ppl are on #srkkaillera for 3S
I finally got Hyper Anniversary yesterday, and I realized again how awesome the Hyper/Champion edition characters are compared to ST. Champion Edition Ken FTW.
crayfish thats not a realistic way to combo the heabutt since youre going for a crossup which will cause you to lose your charge. But I swear Ive seen videos where honda did something like stand jab x 2 into headbutt as a combo. Are you sure thats not possible? Was it like, only possible in world warrior or something?
Just played Crayfish a few times there and got my ass handed to me royally.
Managed two wins against his Boxer and nothing else.
Does feel good to be playing against a real person though.
ok what about this: can honda link anything (like standing short) into low fierce?
So after crossup jumping forward, standing jab and standing strong both whiff over Guile’s head. This is significant because Honda’s only good standing combos are done with jab and strong as the starters (standing jab linked to jab slaps, standing strong linked to strong slaps, standing strong to standing fierce), and he can’t do anything out of standing short. The most damaging thing Honda can do after crossup forward is just slaps (for a total of like 1/4 life, 1/3+ including the fierce grab) or crouching fierce (for less damage), but obviously he can’t do either one on reaction, he just has to start out expecting to have to do that. Heck, I’m not sure slaps are safe, because a Guile who keeps his charge can punish them or even hit between slaps. And by the way, Honda can only vary his ticks by adding or not adding the short after crossup forward, since short can’t link into anything and since crouching jab has the same hit/block stun and since doing standing/crouching forward instead of short pushes Honda too far out to grab.
So there’s a pretty strong guessing game here, obviously. And worst case scenario for Guile, Honda deals 35-40% damage and Guile gets to run away, or Honda deals less and Guile has to deal with another safe jump (which, because it’d be jumping short, is less damaging even if he takes the damage in keeping his charge). This is not game breaking.
Does s.MK *double knee, whiff in the same way as s.LP-s.MP? IF not the s.MK(2hit)xxHHS combo shown here would be possible:
Just did a little testing, it seems to me you can link s.LK into s.LP and presumable then on into HHS or whatever. I also tried s.LP link into c.HP at the range that the s.LK,s.LP link would push you out to and that seemed to work, but I can’t be certain as I’m testing this alone of against CPU… anyone?
One other thing I meant to ask earlier, are Honda’s throw ranges all the same? Since if wre talking about repeat holds thats important.
…k it always seemed to me that the MP thorw had bigger range than the HP hug, but looking at this chart, they’re not listed seperately as Gief’s throws are so I assume they’re the same. Honda’s outranging Guile 94 to 76:
http://nki.combovideos.com/data.html#distance
ps never realised it varied form chara to chara…
Crayfish.:china:
Ok just tested this again, the s.MK knee WILL NOT whiff in the same way as s.LP - s.MP! So Hug, crossup j.MK,s.MK(2hit)xxHHS all connects. With the full grab (which you wouldn’t get in a real match), the entire sequence does aound 90% and dizzy!! Even if you dont get the full 90% the dizzy should still make it TOD:badboy:
and s.LK does not seem to link into anything…
The question still is, if Guile does standing block, does the Hug, crossover j.MK, s.LP(or x move) sequence put Honda in that 77 to 94 thorw range window, ie able to throw Guile without Guile being able to reverse throw? If not Guile would just block everytime no? And either eat a s.LK (which can’t link into anything) and/or try counter throw, which he’d have the advantage in if he guesses right?
In this scenario, it might be worth Honda mixing in c.HK after the crossup as its pretty fast, tho possibly still slow enough to ‘react’ to.
If the s.LK was linkable, that would have made the mixup alot more dangerous than it is… wich as I have it atm, would have Guile either eating a single s.LK or at worst getting thrown again no?
Crayfish.:china:
Ok what about this sequence…
Bear Hug, crossup mk, combo into low fierce.
If guile takes the hit hes knocked down and you safe jump. If he blocks then after the low fierce he still doesnt have flashkick charge, so do a butt drop. Didnt test, but maybe if guile blocks you get a bearhug. Can guile jump out or jab the butt drop?
I keep missing you guys for some HF matches, get at me in #srkkaillera next time.
If Guile blocks crossup forward to crouching jab/standing short tick, he cannot throw Honda but Honda is still in range to throw him. And if Honda does crouching fierce after crossup forward and Guile blocks it, crouching fierce has so much recovery that Guile can almost certainly jump away from a buttslam or throw it away as he jumps.
Again, Honda has very good and damaging options after post-fierce grab crossup forward, but he doesn’t have a reasonable option select between post-crossup grab and damaging combo. He has to go for one or the other, and Guile has to guess that he goes for one or the other. If Honda guesses right, he deals a huge amount of damage, and if Guile guesses right he either takes some mild chip from jab slaps or he jumps away, and either way he starts up his way better stage control again. Still not seeing 7-3.
All of this discussion is interesting. However, the thing in the back of my mind is that Honda has to get in in the first place. If Honda can get in and get a bear hug off, sure, he’s gonna do big damage. But a lot of times, it never gets to that.
Yeah but my main point was that the ppl here dont know enough to conclude whether 7-3 is a reasonable score for the matchup or not. I think given that we have to test elementary things like whether the bearhug leads to an infinite or not proves this.
Of course how easy a time Honda has getting in in the first place is important, and much more difficult to answer than the above question. Its even easier to imagine that we dont know something about sequences Honda has to get in because thats much more compicated. What ranges can he use the butt drop over sonics at full screen to get to? From that range what air moves beat what anti airs of Guile’s? Can Honda jump sonics from some range on reaction and then choose an air attack that will give him a 1/2 or 1/3 chance of outprioritizing an anti air depending on timing and then get in that percentage of the time?
I totally don’t believe you guys know the answers to these difficult questions if you don’t even know exactly what combos and what doesnt after a crossup.
Yeah, I’d have to pretty much agree with that. Like I said, I think the discussion is interesting, and I certainly don’t want to derail it. It just occurs to me that even if Honda had a sequence that did full damage and was very hard to escape then it still wouldn’t matter if 70% of the time he can’t get in and land it. It’s like Hawk in ST. Sure, he can do 100% damage, but usually he doesn’t get the chance to capitalize on that.
I’m going to disagree a bit here. There are a lot of ways that Honda can do a lot of damage once he gets you in a bear hug. Generally, it’s a bunch of mixups that cause you to hopefully get a grab or a knock down again. Once you get in on Guile, you’re in the drivers seat even if you don’t know obscure combos or strings. But getting in is something every Honda player has to cope with. It’s not obscure.
I’ve never played Honda as my main, but I’ve played him enough to know the basics. In general, you try to not be obvious about barging in and find a hole to get closer. You rarely do HK sumo drops, because you’ll get thrown or hit on recovery, even from almost full screen. MK sumo drops work pretty well from far away though. You block booms at the last second or straight jump them to lull them into thinking you won’t move in. Then, when you do jump in, you mixup the timing to jump early or late and you mixup LK or HK to either shrink your hitbox, or make it big and try to knock them down. And you always start charging the torpedo when you jump so that if they whiff a psychic flash kick or something that you can barge in.
I’m sure if I played him more, I might find that there’s a couple more obscure tricks. But I’m pretty confident that those are the basics. Still, all of that only gets you into sweep range for the most part. From there, you can try to trade for a knockdown, but IMO, that’s where the real fight happens. It’s getting from I’m kinda close to you to a throw or knockdown that’s the real trouble.