Hi friend, welcome to the thread. I’ve heard a few people with this opinoin before actualy. On the whole, all the points you make are valid (tho you missed one important one, its that Ken’s jump-in HP has more priority than Ryu’s and can stuff Guile’s AA normals), but the thing is, they dont really have that much bearing on how the matchup plays out, compared to say, Ryu’s fewer, but cruicaly more important advantages.
Hadouken recovery, isnt as important because its harder to pressure Guile into jumping in the first place than it is with Ryu’s FB barrage. Any decent Guile isn’t going to be jumping fwd that much…
ShoRyuKen is pretty risky against Guile (because he has so many fast, rangey, safe counters within its range if you whiff) unless Ur hitting him out of the air (which wont be happening as much with Ken, as it will with Ryu for the above mentioned reasons), where the recovery isnt going to make a huge difference.
*The broader arc can actualy increase the risk of using the move, since it’ll make a counter airthrow easier (if he’s not charged for a combo) and U’ll be moving closer to Guile upon landing, giving him what he desprately wants.
Cyclone speed/recovery is useful against other fireballers, but Booms recover so quik, Ur not gonna be going over one then hitting Guile. The best you can hope for is to hit him during it, or trade, which again works out infinitely better for Ryu with his high damage and knockdown than it does for Ken. If Ur talking about using this at a distance to negate Boom pressure, then its a very minor advantage, since its the Shoto who should be putting Guile under pressure with projectiles. Ur simply moving urself closer to Guile, where again, he has the advantage.
Anyone else care to add something/ correct me? Crayfish.
Ryu’s Hadouken does recover faster, and is faster as well, Ken’s does not recover as fast.
The reason the Ken vs Guile matchup leans more towards Guile, because Ken can be punished far more easily after his Hadouken setups then Ryu, due to his recovery. Not only that, but Ken cannot punish Guile for poor Sonic Boom setups.
Where as Ryu can do so because he has the knockdown hurricane kick, which helps out tremendously. Shoryuken plays very little of a role in this matchup, because really good Guile players rarely jump forward ever, you may see it happen once or twice, but not enough to make shoryuken a reliability.
This matchup is difficult for Ken, simply because he cannot zone Guile as efficiently as Ryu due to slower and heavier recovery on his Hadoukens, nor does he have a knockdown hurricane kick like Ryu.
I would go into greater detail, but I just want to keep it short.
Invincible at the beginning = easier to go through stuff (sonic booms)
Invincible at the end = safe when landing, can fall through guile’s attempt to hit it (it’s funny falling through the flash kick)
knockdown = Guile may trade trying to hit it, eat knockdown, Ryu scores beefy damage
Ken’s hurricane = crap. I don’t recall Ken’s ground hurricane EVER being good. Might score a hit or two, but… shrugs
Ryu can use the hurricane as reversal to pass through the booms, whereas Ken cannot. It’s usually safer than DPing, because, well, the recovery (landing) is invincible for fucks sake.
Throw in a better FB and it should be pretty obvious.
Ken has the j.fierce, and wider arc DP, but… meh… (although, fierce DPing through booms for the hit is fucking sweet. lol)
I got served up by leraldo and the almighty zoolander today on live :D. I wish they had hf at evo so we can play offline. There’s a lot of talent in this game.
hm…yes i see how ryu might be the better choice against an experienced guile player because of the invincibility on the hurricane kick and the fact that a wider arcing shoryuken might cause ken a risk. However, i don’t know, for some reason i find it so much easier with ken. Guess it all comes down to the player really anyway. Oh btw i just wanted to clear up that Ryu does NOT have a faster recovery time from the hadoken than Ken, his hadoken itself is faster, but the recovery time is faster for ken.
What moves does Ken’s jumping HP beat that Ryu’s doesn’t? Does Ryu have a better jumping HK in return, or something like that? Or should he just jump less?
looking at the gamepro stragety guide for HF. Jeff Schaeffer worked on the vs section and one of them was Ken vs Guile.
In short Ken needs to work hard for this to work. Don’t come to guile but stay on the offensive. Guiles biggest weakness is coming after Ken.
Block strings with Shoryuken to knock you back like j.roundhouse, c.short, c.roundhouse, jab.shoryuken, when landing if he’s coming towards you c.roundhouse to hadouken.
A well timed Fierce can beat out anything Guile tries. Don’t bother Hadoukening it cause he’ll backfist you, and hurricaning over it will give you a c.fierce. Just be cautious of the fierce being too earily and whiffing if he ducks or doesn’t combo and he throws you when you land.
and never use the air hurrricane kick to move forward in the air, expert guiles can air throw you every time if you do. But you can try a short air hurricane kick if you far away to barely pass over a sonic boom, if guile attempts to walk up and attack you should land before he can get to you and you can jab.shoryuken him.
I erased my chart because I don’t care anymore but a couple of random things.
Dhalsim/Guile 5.5:4.5 should be the other way around, if not 6:4 guile
Dhalsim/Sagat 5.5:4.5 should also be the other way around. People think just because dhalsim has the tools to beat sagat that sim has an adv. But the problem is dhalsim HAS to beat sagat, sagat doesn’t have to beat him. If sagat intelligently guesses a psychic TU, that invalidates everything dhalsim had to work for.
I guess the rest of the stuff I don’t really care about too much.
And can anyone tell me how to beat blanka’s jump ins with zangief, i’ve seen people use lariat against maybe jump mk (I think?) but jump fierce beats everything I’ve tried.
Blanka does not have an adv against chun li, unless he gets her into the corner and starts using vertical balls. Chun is very versatile and controls a lot of space. It’s not all about her ground speed and air priority.
I remember in CE, Ken’s Jumping FP had stupid priority, because even doing regular AA’s you would still trade hits or lose out completely…which was retarded.
I don’t remember HF Ken’s jumping fp ever being his CE equivelant. Also, jumping forward with fp on Guile isn’t a smart idea anyhow.
HF. Blanka doesn’t have an advantage over shoto’s, maybe possibly Ken, but not Ryu, this matchup from my own experience is quite dead even, relying more upon the player to really decide to outcome of this matchup.
I agree with all of this EXCEPT blanka having an advantage against chun.
I agree because his TU does so much damage and sim has terrible priority in this game (also is it just me or does sim also do terrible damage?) But nonethless sim is still sim and still has a slight advantage 5.5-4.5.
I couldn’t have said it better myself IMO she has alot of different ways to shutdown blanka and has a solid advantage though i wouldn’t say it’s unwinnable for blanka.
I have played many GOOD blankas and from my experience i think he has at least a SLIGHT advantage vs shotos and moreso against sagat who has to do his TU VERY DEEP or else it gets beaten out by blankas jumping normals. Sure ryu/ken have dp’s to stop blankas beastly jumping game but don’t underestimate blankas jumping speed it can easily make u mistime a dp and his toward/upball game can be very confusing especially when the upball hits on the up and down and still crossesup upclose.
This is all my own opinion from what i have experienced playing the game OFFLINE.
It’s almost always better to block all of blanka’s jumping attacks with gief. Especially j.strong. Gief just loses this one really bad. Can’t jump in, blanka’s s.fierce and s.strong take care of all of giefs jumping attaks. Can’t walk forward, s.strong beats giefs lariats , sweep beats 3P lariat and c.fierce is a decent poke. Can’t AA, all of blanka’s jumping normals will beat the lariat 95% of the time. Honestly, i wonder if this match up is even worth playing some times. Even after a knockdown gief can get pushed back out by reversal upball.
you should probably edit the gief vs blanka match up, it’s definitely worst than 4-6. At least when going against chun gief can trap her with lariat, spd tricks after a knock down, but against blanka he has nothing concrete. Blanka can play basic as hell, and win easy.
