Zangief can Lariat (KKK) most Dhalsim MKs. Also, Zangief Body Splash hits through a lot of Dhalsim’s stuff. And it is hard, but if you can use a Burning Hand (DP+P) to counter a Yoga Fire, Zangief gets a good chance of landing a 360+K. And use Zangief’s D+FK a lot. It has MAD priority and speed. Also, I personally like Zangief’s standing medium Kick. Good range. And if you mash Jab punch, it is like a mini lariat.
Since U are using Zangief in HF, I would scan the internet for tips on how to get the 720+P off instantly, like doing a Jab Kick just before.
Most of that stuff you’re talking about is ST, he doesn’t have it in HF.
Oh and i totally missed the part where evilj said that sim should jump back MK at the beginning of the round, that is the absolutely worst thing you can do. 1. you’re driving yourself to the corner 2. when people do this, if they do an immediate j.mk i walk right into becuase sim is still floating upwards and i gain distance, or if he waits to do it on the way down he gets hit with lariat. Either way gief is driving you to the corner, which you don’t want.
So I made my own matchup chart. What do you guys think?
But I don’t think these matchups correspond exactly with the actual tiers. For example, I think Ken should be tiered above Zangief even though his matchup numbers aren’t as high because Ken generally does better against the better characters, which is important because those are the characters you generally find in competitions, and he also has fewer bad matchups. I also think Boxer should be tiered higher than Dhalsim because, again, he does better than Sim against the better characters. Also, Dictator’s final matchup number is misleading because it makes him look considerably worse than the other characters; in reality, he doesn’t really die to any character like Honda does against Ryu or Boxer does against Gief, he’s just at a slight-to-noticeable disadvantage in most of his matchups.
Interesting that the bottom four characters would all shoot up into the top tier in ST, heh.
Thats a good point that often gets neglected in tiering discussions. I remember that GamePro did a pullout ‘Fighters Edge’ guide for SSF2 where they actualy switched to doing a two chart format (not featured in the combined SSF2/ST Guidebook they published). One overall chart, then one for just the top tier.
*btw, if anyone has this guide and can scan it in Hi-Res, I’ll love you forever. Think it had a SSF2 deathcombo guide included.
While were on the subject of tierlists, thought might point back to this post showing 3 major ones, inc the unexplainable T.Akiba site one…
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3135708&postcount=19
that was translated for us by RobsMac and Bill Wood:
http://img57.imageshack.us/img57/5992/turborank8ue.jpg
Actualy I think they shot up before that. In SSF2 Boxer,Claw,Sim, Dictator all shoot up overall. I guess thats to be expected, your obv gonna address the extremities first, just like Dictators nerf from CE to HF.
Someone scan that pullout guide pplleeeaaaasseee
Crayfish.
One thing I immediately would disagree with would be “Guile-Balrog 5-5”.
From what I’ve heard and experienced Guile is Balrog’s worst matchup.
That’s what Jeff Schaeffer wrote:
@Crayfish: WOW, that’s some nice stuff over there. But I still can’t believe they have Honda as #1 and Guile as #6…I mean…that can’t be possible. 
Chun vs gief should really be 7-3 because of one move, straight up j.lk. Even if gief manages to knock chun down, it’s still a semi guessing game for him. He can play 3K/3P lariat tricks on her wake up to prevent her from SBK,c.mk/hk, throw on wakeup, and try to 360 but every now and then chun can sneak a throw in (against 3K lariat) which basically resets the whole match.
I agree on that that Guile can do seriously damage to Balrog. Mainly because Rog cannot TurnPunch through SonicBooms even remotely consistantly. You SB, they TurnPunch, you have a free S.fp, or c.mk.
They try to jump over you, and with Rog having one of the absolute worst jumps in the game, Guile can AA him off of regulars and send him back to Square One.
Guile has the proper tools to effectively zone Balrog out of his game, because SonicBooms are too strong of a buffer for Rog to get through without taking a risk for himself.
I agree that Guile is Balrog’s worst matchup in HF, you could even say a 7:3.
READ THIS: I’m not trying to start anything i’m just getting a general idea of everyone here/the top HF players (jeff, tomo, mike) so that we can get a more accurate matchup chart.
#1ryu
#2guile
#3blanka
#4…this is where it gets ugly chun, ken, sagat are more or less equally deserving and it’s debatable.
#5…It gets REALLY messy from here so i’l just leave that up to yall.
OK correct me if i’m wrong but i THINK that 99% of everyone here would agree that ryu is #1 n that guile #2 and blanka SHOULD be #3 cuz jeff schaeffer himself even said so and after the top 3 IMO we all agree that sagat, chun, n ken are next in line though we’re not exactly sure in what order.
Now that we have half the tier listing done…shouldn’t an accurate matchup chart reflect WHY each character is in the tier that they are in? for example if Jeff said blanka is top3 then shouldn’t his matchups show us WHY he’s #3? anyways i hope that helps for anyone who decides to make a matchup chart in the future:tup:
EDIT: Ultradavid i agree with that entire post IMO tiers should be determined from matchups however in the specific case of HF we know certain things…(i hope) like ryu being the best so i think that may affect how we view matchup charts.
EDIT2: The jeff vs daigo link isn’t working whenever i click on the greenbox it says an error occurred so if anyone can upload it somwhere else so i can see it i’d greatly appreciate it.
The problem is that Jeff has Sagat on 1 (with Ryu being pushed out) and Blanka two places behind him. Furthermore Tomo has Sagat on 3 and Blanka on 4 so it’s pretty hard to tell. :\
Oh and you can find the Daigo vs Jeff matches on youtube.
Blanka vs Ryu is 4-6 but vs Balrog and Chun are 5-5 don’t make sense to me. Chun li controls the ground with fierce and jab fireballs, if blanka jumps he gets hit into lighting legs chip into repeat. Air game is gone against chun li and vertical ball gets stuffed too. It’s a harder matchup than shotos for sure.
Is Hyper Fighting very different from the SF2 in the PS2 Anniversary edition if you only pick SSF2 turbo characters?
In AE i am told that the ST characters are different then the ST characters in the actual game SSF2T.
And from personal experience i know the turbo (not super turbo) chars are very different from the chars in the game SF2 hyper fighting.
VERY different?
Yeah. It’s something like, play perfectly and don’t get knocked down and Rog wins outright but one knockdown makes the match even. So I think he meant that on paper Rog wins 9-1 but in reality where mistakes are made, that one knockdown balances things out greatly but Rog has the initial advantage at all times. It’s his match to lose I think.
Yeah for example in HF blanka is one of the best in the game he’s got real good priority on his normals, his upball hits on the way up AND down, lots of AA’s and his jump attacks r very fast. In AE turbo blanka doesn’t have any of that n he kinda sucks. In HF ryu n kens srk have really good startup so right after a weak srk u can do another almost immediately in AE the time between 2 weak srks in a row is more noticable, in AE turbo ken can do diagonal air hurricanes in HF he can only do straight ones, n the list goes on.
See my previous notes about Dhalsim. In particular:
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I think he has a harder time against Ryu than Ken. I’d move his score down for Ryu.
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I think 6.5 is way too high against Sagat
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Actually, after reading LeRaldo’s post(s) about Boxer, I’m inclined to agree with him that Sim doesn’t have an advantage here. I’d probably put it down as 5-5.
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I still don’t think Sim beats claw. Maybe go 5-5 here.
Also, you guys should merge your charts. We should keep talking about all these matchups until at least most of us come to some kind of agreement. These discussions have been fun and I think having one solid chart, created by lots of debate, will be more useful in the long run than several ad-hoc charts. Just a thought…
WTF are you talkin’ about? Most(all?) of that sounds like you’re comparing the Super Turbo versions of the characters to the Turbo(Hyper Fighting) versions.
In terms of ST vs. AE ST equivalent:
http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Game_Versions
Street Fighter HF: Ken vs. Guile as opposed to Ryu vs. Guile?
Call me crazy, but after using both Ken and Ryu for the majority of my Hyper Fighting days, i’ve noticed that its easier for me to beat Guile players using Ken rather than Ryu. Now before you go calling me a newb, let me first clarify that i understand perfectly that Ryu and Guile are top tier, and overall the best characters in the game. However, i’ve noticed Ken has some traits that make it easier for him to fight Guile than Ryu. Below are the traits i think give Ken more of a chance against Guile than Ryu in street fighter 2: Hyper Fighting:
-Faster Hadoken recovery time. Yes i know the hadoken itself is slower than Ryu’s, but the recovery time is faster, allowing for a better chance at stopping Guile if he tries to jump in for a combo, by using either a high kick, or a shoryuken.
-Faster drop down from Shoryuken. Allowing for a quicker follow-up attack, or chance to use another attack.
-Faster drop down from Hurricane Kick. Yes, his hurricane kick doesn’t do much damage compared to Ryu’s. However, it drops down a hell of a lot faster, and if done with the weakest kick, travels a shorter distance to; I think…, making it better for going over booms.
-Broader arching Shoryuken. This helps ken DP Guile better if he lands a short distance away and tries to use a flash kick, and in some cases it hits him right before he can pull off the flash kick.
Conclusion: I am aware that Guile’s attacks are more damaging than Kens, and in a trade off Ken recieves more damage. A Ken player would have to be much more precise than a Ryu player because there is a smaller margin for error, due to the fact that Guile’s attacks hurt more. However, i believe if played with precise timing and skill, Ken makes a better choice when fighting Guile than Ryu because he is exposed to fewer situations that he can’t get of (or make use of) than Ryu. What do you guys think?