The SF2 Hyper Fighting Thread

[caliagent_3]

:
Acho Rog vs Ryu
[media=youtube]ddBKjg-DTqA[/media]

Dunno why that Ryu didn’t S.fierce after every slow fireball. Rog can’t tap through that, he gets hit clean. Ryu loses when rog gets him to the corner poking and baiting fb’s to TAP through, since at close range ryu can’t do much but guess or try to run away with hurricane kicks. This match reminds me a lot of Sim vs Gief, if geif gets in, it’s pretty much over for sim, if rog gets in on ryu it’s hard to get out, because he has to guess right.

Boxer/Zangief: I think Boxer loses 3-7 instead of 4-6 to Zangief. P Lariat stuffs almost everything (except low attacks of course, and once in a while a dash upper can get through, but impossible to actually time). No reversal for Boxer means SPD dominates completely, and if Boxer is waking up near the corner, it’s pretty much round over. This match up relies heavily on reaction for Boxer.

I’d think i’d go as far as saying 8-2 in giefs favor LOL. This is such a bad match up for rog. S.jab beats pretty much all of rogs main attacks from outside of his standing and crouching poke range. Rog misses a sweep, he gets spd’d, and if he’s in the corner it’s pretty much GG. This is such a bad match up, becuase even if rog gets in and tries headbutt tricks, he can still get SPD’d

[evilj]

leraldo: I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said, and my chart had a lot of the same numbers that you listed when i first made it, but I think since HF is such a balanced game, there’s no such thing as an 8-2 matchup anymore imo, but if there was one, it’d probably be balrog honda or shoto honda. Plus there’s a bunch of errors that I fixed. I think i’ve played you on xboxlive btw.

I agree with bison vs boxer being 4-6 boxer. I had it 5-5 because I was unsure. I do really well with bison vs balrog players for some reason, usually after getting rushed down by balrog, I land a few kicks and throws and they are dizzy=done! As far as dhalsim/boxer, a couple of people agree it’s 4-6. I’m unsure too because I see your point here. If I put 6-4 for balrog on ken, I’d have to put 6-4 for balrog on dhalsim, but since I truly don’t think Balrog beats ken or ryu 6-4, I’m going to leave balrog dhalsim at 4-6 in favor of dhalsim.

Acho vid: That ryu player was decent but he did such stupid things at times. Thanks for the vids crayfish but IMO the ryu player was retarded. He had the match and usually won when he had it, but he did a lot of things to potentially throw it away. Random early jump rh, please tell me why he did this, balrog was never jumping, and the only purpose of this move is to hit people out of the air. Random air hurricane=scrub tactics. Along with what caliagent said about s.fierce after slow fireball. He could have sweeped also. Yet he tried sweeping at close range after getting rushed, that’s asking to get TAP for free.

All the vids so far you posted such as dhalsim ryu, balrog ryu, balrog sagat, I see the fireball player trying to outplay the other person when he doesn’t HAVE to. He just needs to chill out and play lame or guess right to win. It must be an asian thing (no offense I’m asian myself). These players need to have a taste of that good ole american cheese aka do the same thing over and over again, block and be patient.

Ultradavid: No disrespect but your comment about ryu having to resort to air hurricane…I would never throw out air hurricane in top level play. The reason I would use this move is on jump happy scrubs and when I don’t feel like dping. The only reason why I would ever use this move is probably with ken, to get out of fireball traps, and to get some space in other scenarios since the short hk is lands faster than ryu’s short hk.

Should be fixed to have correct values both ways, updated gief vs balrog, bison balrog, balrog ken.

http://img3.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/8184311dd8.jpg

Top Tier

1. Ryu, Guile (Tied)
   3 Sagat, Chun (Tied)
2. Ken

---

Mid Tier
6. Blanka
7. Honda
8. Zangief

Low Tier
9. Dhalsim
10. Bison (Dictator)
11. Balrog (Boxer)
12. Vega (Claw)

Just read the download Crayfish provided, it says TAP is only invulnerable if charged for 2 seconds or less, I did not know that. This download is golden thanks a lot!

[_Snake]

I agree with LeRaldo on the Ryu V. Balrog match-up. Balrog can only TAP at close range, other wise it gets fierce punch’d or DP’d. Hurricane Kicks are a nightmare for Balrog during his rushdown.

Boxer/Honda: I think Boxer loses 2-8 to Honda (instead of 3-7), the sumo smash (butt drop) completely rapes Boxer, and is extremely hard to counter. Hundred Hand Slap is also good against Boxer, it’s very hard to get at the right range to sweep it so as not to trade, and also hard to get at the right range to jump attack without either getting hit by the HHS or getting grabbed immediately after a successful hit. While the sumo headbutt can be TAPed, the sumo headbutt is a good reversal move against a TAP/Dash Straight/Upper. 2-8 easy, in my opinion

I say the match-up is 3-7 Honda. The headbutt is rendered useless since Balrog can TAP through it. The HHS trades are always in Balrog’s favor. Always go for the trade against the HHS slap because 'Rog can dizzy in about two TAPs/Rush Punches. Free combo.

Boxer/Zangief: I think Boxer loses 3-7 instead of 4-6 to Zangief. P Lariat stuffs almost everything (except low attacks of course, and once in a while a dash upper can get through, but impossible to actually time). No reversal for Boxer means SPD dominates completely, and if Boxer is waking up near the corner, it’s pretty much round over. This match up relies heavily on reaction for Boxer.

Agree with this.

Boxer/Sagat: Boxer loses 4-6 instead of winning 6.5-3.5. The fierce/roundhouse tiger shots are harder to TAP, and once you tap, Sagat has a lot of normals that wreck Boxer, as well as the tiger knee and tiger uppercut.

After playing some Sagat V. Balrog matches yesterday at Season’s Beatings II, I give the advantage to Balrog. At long range, sure Balrog has a tough time. Once 'Rog is within standing fierce range, Sagat can do very little.

Boxer/Dhalsim: Boxer wins 5.5-4.5 instead of losing 4-6 to Dhalsim. While Dhalsim’s noogie trap and other tick throws (drills, etc) can be good against Boxer, Sim deals little damage with most of his attacks. I think once Boxer is on the attack, it’s fairly easy to keep the pressure on Sim. Boxer’s sweep is really good against Sim, and Boxer can TAP a lot of Sim’s moves.

Agree.

Boxer/Dictator: Boxer wins 6-4 instead of tied 5-5. Dictator can deal some good chip damage to Boxer, but once boxer is on the offensive, it’s hard for Dictator. Dictator gets locked down. Just out of range sweeps from Boxer stuff Dictator’s psycho crusher and scissor kick, and so do Dash Straights/Uppers/TAPs if timed when Dictator starts these moves up. Dictator has no reversal so Boxer’s tick grab works really well.

Agree with this one as well.

Acho vid: That ryu player was decent but he did such stupid things at times. Thanks for the vids crayfish but IMO the ryu player was retarded. He had the match and usually won when he had it, but he did a lot of things to potentially throw it away. Random early jump rh, please tell me why he did this, balrog was never jumping, and the only purpose of this move is to hit people out of the air. Random air hurricane=scrub tactics. Along with what caliagent said about s.fierce after slow fireball. He could have sweeped also. Yet he tried sweeping at close range after getting rushed, that’s asking to get TAP for free.

Early jump-in FP or RH xx Hurrican Kick is my guess. I agree though, the Ryu missed so many chances to punish 'Rog’s TAP at certain ranges.

[Trouble_Brewing]

All this makes me want to play HF again. I wish there was some people interested in playing in my area. =/

[evilj]

Everyone should download this link that Crayfish posted.

'Hyper Fighting Dizzy System, Charr guides & strategies’
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KSEOLEW5

Upon reading this, I’ve realized I’ve played “Antos” one of the two main contributors to the Chun Li section. We used to play everyday on Kaillera maybe 5 years ago. Chun li is a beast in this game.

[UltraDavid]

Air hurricane kick is a bad idea against a lot of characters, but Boxer has a hard time dealing with it because it can beat or float over his antiairs, and if Ryu mixes up the hurricane strengths it becomes harder to deal with. You can see the Ryu player in that A-cho vid using this a few times.

[Warrior_s_Dreams]

Everyone should download this link that Crayfish posted.

'Hyper Fighting Dizzy System, Charr guides & strategies’
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KSEOLEW5

Upon reading this, I’ve realized I’ve played “Antos” one of the two main contributors to the Chun Li section. We used to play everyday on Kaillera maybe 5 years ago. Chun li is a beast in this game.

Nice! Thank you both! That guide was really useful. All I knew about Turbo before was in the Gamepro guide they released years ago.

[_Snake]

Air hurricane kick is a bad idea against a lot of characters, but Boxer has a hard time dealing with it because it can beat or float over his antiairs, and if Ryu mixes up the hurricane strengths it becomes harder to deal with. You can see the Ryu player in that A-cho vid using this a few times.

Balrog’s s. strong knocks Ryu out of his hurricane kick at max height. c. FP works for everything else.

[UltraDavid]

Actually standing strong sometimes trades with the hurricane kick, which is bad for Boxer because he gets knocked down and Ryu gets the advantage. It depends on the height of the hurricane kick and whether Boxer presses strong at the same time the hurricane kick has an active frame.

Edit: I’ve read those HF notes before, but forgot about this: “I played the best shotos at the time, Mike Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tournament players playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.” – Apoc.

[LeRaldo]

Edit: I’ve read those HF notes before, but forgot about this: “I played the best shotos at the time, Mike Watson & Tomo Ohira. Balrog defeats the shotos 9-1 with 2 tournament players playing at equal ability. Balrog was made to crush Ken & Ryu in HF.” – Apoc.

I saw that, but he also says this: “Rog has the advantage though Ryu can win. It’s like 65%-55% rog’s favor.”

Definitely a contradiction, both things said by the same person in that same guide.

[orochizoolander]

I thought it was pretty obvious that rog beats ryu, he can tap through fb’s so ryus fb game is out the window which is most of what he does and ryus mixup game doesn’t work against rog and once he gets in ryu is toast, hurricanes aren’t enough to give ryu breathing room IMO it’s a solid 6-4.

I don’t understand why anyone would debate the rog vs sagat matchup IMO it’s very simple: sagat wins if he keeps rog out n rog wins if he gets up close. The sagat player has to guess correctly on EVERY SINGLE FB to keep out rog, all rog has to do to get in is tap once or twice n then he’l be close enough to let his mixup and headbutt game takeover so IMO the sagat player has to work harder to get the win. A counter arguement may be that “sagats fbs are harder to tap then hadoukens” well yes that true cuz they’re faster but once the rog player gets it down (it’s not that hard) then sagat can’t safely mixup his fb’s n must rely on RH fb’s n hope they’re not tap’ed through and sagat can’t jump at all in this matchuo cuz he’l get knocked out of the air FAST. so rog wins this 6-4.

EDIT: whoever said sagats normals wreck rog doesn’t know sagat very well cuz sagats normals in HF ABSOLUTELY SUCK except for j.RH.

EDIT2: whenever i say rogs headbutt i meant his “throw grab”

EDIT3: thx for the link crayfish that was a very helpful guide.

[forest31]

anyone have tips on how to beat Ryu with Blanka?

When I read your post, I was thinking of Ryu strategy beacuse I use Ryu SO much. With Ryu VS com, I am very conservative with my fireballs, because Blanka has such a fast jump-in, and can combo it with a FP to Roll Ball for big damage, or even (I think) combo a jump in to electricity! Unless I am at full screen, I mostly just hold D/B the whole round and turtle up, only defending whatever he does. So what is my advice to you? Make it hard on Ryu by constantly attacking and confusing, but also be smart: you are not the com when it comes to move execution time.

[orochizoolander]

^^Why don’t u just PM real decoy? he’s the best blanka on xbl so i’m sure he’d know.

IMO use lots of slowballs to stop short so the ryu player will dp and u can then punish, also use blankas jumping normals to ur advantage they have alot of speed n priority but don’t get to crazy cuz u can get dp’ed easily if u get predictable, and i THINK cr. fierce closeup beats out ryus fb and if ryu jumps u can AA with him with upball.

EDIT: I only casually use blanka so i’m not the best person to ask.

[evilj]

I was using balrog today on xbox live, losing to ryu players :(.

Dhalsim vs Zangief should be like 7.5-2.5. Just jump back mk at the beginning of the round to get your space. Usually if I play Zangief against a good dhalsim, the match takes 99 seconds.

[SweetJohnnyV]

Dhalsim vs Zangief should be like 7.5-2.5. Just jump back mk at the beginning of the round to get your space. Usually if I play Zangief against a good dhalsim, the match takes 99 seconds.

That just made me LOL! It’s for that reason that I hate that match-up as much as the guy that plays Zangief probably does. It’s sooo long and grueling if both players are good.

[orochizoolander]

No vids of US SF's 'Golden Era' & best_ever player!?

On Hyper, yeah sure, Blanka is top 3 character. No doubt about it.

There it is clear as day, the #2 worlds best HF player who knows the game a million times better then anyone else on the planet except for tomo ohira says blanka is #3…so shouldn’t the matchup chart reflect that?

[polarity]

There it is clear as day, the #2 worlds best HF player who knows the game a million times better then anyone else on the planet except for tomo ohira says blanka is #3…so shouldn’t the matchup chart reflect that?

tierings arent just about who has most good matchups

[orochizoolander]

^^uhh yeah it is IMO.

ryu has the most favorable matchups making him the best in the game…is there something i’m missing?

[polarity]

it depends on the metagame too i.e. good matches against top tiers are more valuable than good matches against low tiers just because youre more likely to have those matches more often

[caliagent_3]

I was using balrog today on xbox live, losing to ryu players :(.

Dhalsim vs Zangief should be like 7.5-2.5. Just jump back mk at the beginning of the round to get your space. Usually if I play Zangief against a good dhalsim, the match takes 99 seconds.

It’s 7-3 but definitely winnable by gief. IMO this match is a lot harder in ST.

As far as rog vs ryu goes, rog wins but there is an optimum range where ryu can trap rog. It’s just hard to set up.