^^This is true however sims priority is noticably nerfed thats why i put it at 5-5 and i dunno about boxer having an advantage against sagat 6-4 IMO it’s the other way around cuz tapping though fbs lets boxer get close and heatbutt.
If people are serious abt Evo, I’d say aim for a side tourney. I doub’t HF would get on the main roster, because even if they were going to run 2 versions of SF2 (unlikley in itself) the other would be AE(Tho advent of AE really helps here too, since lots of people are now playing like CE Guile and Sagat, so could hit the ground running in HF).
A side tourney would be great tho. Clearly there is the support and resources for it from US posters here, and Im sure the big name oldschoolers would take part, as long as whoever arranges it works out a good timeslot for it. ie. Watson plays 3s so dont clash with that etc…
Just look what Dark Geese and the SRK SNK guys do at Evo…
If anyone can dig up any info or especialy footage from that Australia tourny it’d be great. Just picked Sagat, coss afaik, thats the only SF2 chara he’s ever used. What I wanna know is what he was doing downunder in the firstplace?
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?p=4468798#post4468798
Ryu beats Boxer 6-4 (if not 7-3).
Ryu can zone Boxer pretty good. TAP through projectiles can only get you so far; if the hadouken is thrown with maybe 3/4 distance the screen or more, if it’s TAPed, Ryu can do many things; shoryuken, st.fp, hurricane kick, j.rh, jumping hurricane kick, etc.
Hurricane kick, with invincibility on startup, is fairly easy to time to go through Boxer’s dash straight/TAP, and extremely easy to trade.
And what evilj said about tick throws and reversals is true.
It really just turns out to be a guessing game for Boxer against a good Ryu, and the matchup is definitely in Ryu’s favor in my opinion.
Well yeah butt you’re opinion is wrong…As odd as that sounds.
no footage. justin didn’t really know much about HF but picked it up as he went along, he got put into the losers by a ryu, came back and beat that same team to win the tourney. he was over here cause we brought him out
How can ryu zone boxer without his fb? the simple fact that boxer can tap through them takes ALOT away from ryu’s ability to control space not to mention if tap doesn’t hit ryu boxer can always follow up with dash straight or even worse headbutt which is hard to srk on reaction up close. Yes hurricane has invincibility on startup but saying that it can go through dash straight or tap let alone trade is just completely wrong. Sure it CAN trade but 9/10 times boxer is gonna deal more damage in a trade with ryus hurricane. The matchup is 6-4 in boxers favor IMO since ryu’s main game is taken away and he has to work harder to win then boxer.
Even though I don’t agree with truesephiroth and ultradavid about this matchup, I DO think that shotos are balrog’s best matchup, so it still makes sense with the chart. My chart is still screwed up as I’m checking now, sagat beats balrog 6, but balrog beats him 6.5. doh! and Ryu beats balrog 4.5 but balrog beats him 6.5
I agree with ultradavid n truesephiroth balrog beats both sagat and ryu 6-4 and i play HF offline as well as online and the gameplay don’t lie balrog simply has to work less harder to win against ryu n sagat then they do.
EDIT: in ST boxer is considered to have a slight advantage against o.sagat BECAUSE he can tap through fb’s.
Orochi, no offense bro but that’s twice now that you have used headbutt as a viable tactic against ryu.
Balrog doesn’t have a headbutt in HF. Secondly, in ST TAP can’t go through sagat’s fireballs because it has no invulnerability in ST.
My bad when i said headbutt i meant his throw headbutt n yeah tap can go through his high fbs on trade sagat takes hella more damage n when u gonna play me on xbl? i’l b on tonight.
Boxer can’t buffalo headbutt in HF, and shoryuken/hurricane kick/st.fp all will destroy the dash straight/upper after a TAP, and I believe most decent Ryu players are good enough to pull that off.
No, it’s not completely wrong. If timed right, the hurricane kick can go through a dash straight completely, meaning, hitting Boxer and taking absolutely no damage even with Boxers arm completely extending over Ryu.
Ryu’s hurricane kick does ridiculous amounts of damage. So much so, that I believe it does more damage than a dash punch a lot of the time (I say a lot of the time because damage is so random in HF). Honestly, I’d even go so far as to say Ryu’s hurricane kick is the best move in the entire game. But that’s a different debate, for a different time.
Ryu can play keep away fairly easily in my opinion, and once that distance is there, I think it’s easy to capitalize on. Where as Boxer has to play the guessing game, and rely on Ryu making mistakes to capitalize on.
Ryu can’t play keepaway very well against Boxer. Boxer can jump, tap, or bulldog his way closer to Ryu, and at that range Ryu can no longer throw fireballs and his pokes aren’t terribly useful. He’s forced to use other things, like psychic dragon punches, air hurricane kick shenanigans, regular hurricane kick shenanigans, and jumping stuff, and all of those options are unsafe. Boxer has very little guessing to do in this matchup; he gets to a certain range, holds the buttons, and taps, pokes, and antiairs on reaction. This matchup isn’t 5.5-4.5 for Boxer, it’s at least 6-4, and probably more like 6.5-3.5.
anyone have tips on how to beat Ryu with Blanka?
Do you really believe at top level play, that Boxer is the favorite against Ryu? I just can’t see Boxer winning 6-4. Oh well.
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Other opinions on evilj’s match-ups
Boxer/Honda: I think Boxer loses 2-8 to Honda (instead of 3-7), the sumo smash (butt drop) completely rapes Boxer, and is extremely hard to counter. Hundred Hand Slap is also good against Boxer, it’s very hard to get at the right range to sweep it so as not to trade, and also hard to get at the right range to jump attack without either getting hit by the HHS or getting grabbed immediately after a successful hit. While the sumo headbutt can be TAPed, the sumo headbutt is a good reversal move against a TAP/Dash Straight/Upper. 2-8 easy, in my opinion
Boxer/Zangief: I think Boxer loses 3-7 instead of 4-6 to Zangief. P Lariat stuffs almost everything (except low attacks of course, and once in a while a dash upper can get through, but impossible to actually time). No reversal for Boxer means SPD dominates completely, and if Boxer is waking up near the corner, it’s pretty much round over. This match up relies heavily on reaction for Boxer.
Boxer/Sagat: Boxer loses 4-6 instead of winning 6.5-3.5. The fierce/roundhouse tiger shots are harder to TAP, and once you tap, Sagat has a lot of normals that wreck Boxer, as well as the tiger knee and tiger uppercut.
Boxer/Dhalsim: Boxer wins 5.5-4.5 instead of losing 4-6 to Dhalsim. While Dhalsim’s noogie trap and other tick throws (drills, etc) can be good against Boxer, Sim deals little damage with most of his attacks. I think once Boxer is on the attack, it’s fairly easy to keep the pressure on Sim. Boxer’s sweep is really good against Sim, and Boxer can TAP a lot of Sim’s moves.
Boxer/Dictator: Boxer wins 6-4 instead of tied 5-5. Dictator can deal some good chip damage to Boxer, but once boxer is on the offensive, it’s hard for Dictator. Dictator gets locked down. Just out of range sweeps from Boxer stuff Dictator’s psycho crusher and scissor kick, and so do Dash Straights/Uppers/TAPs if timed when Dictator starts these moves up. Dictator has no reversal so Boxer’s tick grab works really well.
Edit: Am I reading these numbers wrong? It shows two different values in a few spots for same character match-ups. lol, anyways, if you’re gonna have Boxer win 6.5-3.5 against Ryu (not that I agree with it), then Boxer should win 7-3 or 7.5-2.5 against Ken, maybe higher, because Boxer has a much easier time against Ken compared to Ryu. Ken’s hadoukens are slower, Ken’s hurricane kick is terrible compared to Ryu’s (especially in this match-up), and his better shoryuken doesn’t make that much of a difference in this match.
Wow. Now I see why you all told zoolander to keep quiet hahaa
Not just Ryu, but Ken have it bad up against Rog in HF. Go to the 1st page and look at the very first post which is Crayfishes, and find the Tomo Ohira Thread, there you’ll find a very nice post by Apoc about HF. Rog vs HF. Ryu, and Apoc was without much argument the most elite Rog player in the states during HF’s reign, so that would be some top lvl play statements without question. Even Jeff has a good post in the Tomo Ohira thread about HF. Sagat vs. HF. Rog as well.
TrueSep 
yep here it is:
Balrog vs. Ryu (by Apoc)
Rog rapes Ryu. Not to be a prick but Rog owns Ryu on HF. I have utmost proofback in the day. There’s like one strat that can just kill rog and no onereally knows it and even still Rog has to be tripped first which usually asweep gets a counter tap so…hard either way.Rog has the advantage though Ryu can win. It’s like 65%-55% rog’s favor.Same with Ken and Sagat. Oh, btw, Jump back with frc is not as good on Kenbecause of his dp arc. If ryu tries to dp Rog can hit nothing(just yetanother fake of this particular set up) and ryu’s dp will whiff=free dash.Ken’s will follow you and hit you…in ken’s case you wanna do it once the dolow shorts and move the stick to jump back WHILE the short is out thus keepingyou grounded…homie say your controller motion and dps without noticing youdidn’t actually move and gets comboed dazed and redazed game over.Ryu did not have quick fireball recovery at all. Just quicker then Ken’s. You don’thave to anticipate a fb to jump. Why? Balrog could st.frc which would tradeHIGHLY in Balrog’s favor. But, WHY? No anticipation necessary. It is thissimple. Walk at RYU all day holding down 3 kicks, watch for when they arestanding or crouching, if they are crouching just wait for the button & TAP;game over. If they are standing just wait for the joystick motion & blockwhen they hit the button. The start up time for a fb allows you to see thefb come out before you need to TAP. So if they don’t do a fb you wereblocking whatever. & if they got ballsy & dped then you let go when they areon their way down. & if they threw a fb; game over.& beyond all of this Balrog has easily meaner cheap grabs! This match issad. Ryu gets destroyed like nothing. Though Ryu may be a better characteroverall; he has little to no chance in this match up. Same goes for Ken &Sagat. Though Sagat’s damage made that a somewhat even match
And vids, neither are at the level of strat described above by Apoc (no s.HP trade with Ryu FB etc…), but certainly show just how insane the TAP is:
Acho Rog vs Ryu
[media=youtube]ddBKjg-DTqA[/media]
Guang Zhou Rog vs Sagat:
[media=youtube]X4i-TqS1lHM[/media]
PLEASE BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER FORWARD WITH THIS THREAD. CAN EVERYONE DOWNLOAD AND ‘READ’ THIS DOCUMENT WHICH HAS BEEN LINKED ON THE FRONT PAGE FROM DAY ONE:
'Hyper Fighting Dizzy System, Charr guides & strategies’
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KSEOLEW5
This has all the guides and info by the oldschool players that we keep having to refer back to. So please read this before posting you opinions on matchups…
*have now put this at the very top of the first post so people dont miss it…
doesnt Ken’s jab dragon punch beat out boxers everything?
technically if Ken sat on DP, then sure. But most Kens don’t play like that