Dude…Tomo Ohira is like…The Babe Ruth of Street of Fighter.
I do apologize for my rather rash statements, so again for everyone here, I apologize for derailing the thread from my last few post.
However, moving along, it would be extremely cool to have a Hyper Fighting tournament at Evolution. Honestly, that alone would really make me want to get out of retirement from fighting games and actually start up again. However, it would be difficult in my case, due in part, because the competition around me for HF has all but umm…died completely.
Sure, I get a few old SF buddies/rivals whom may come to visit during the weekends from time to time and play with me in HF. However, I’m quite confident that wouldn’t be enough for me to get back into shape in this game.
I mean, it gets annoying when sometimes, you get the opportunity against opponents to finally land a combo, and usually I would do a c.lk, s.fp, fp Hadouken…however…I can’t even do this 95% of the time like I used to back in the day…this is due to me being simply just rusty as hell.
If this did happen for next years Evo, I would seriously need to beef up alot in order for me to be confident enough to attend. HF is just simply too good.
Also Johnny, your post on Sim vs Ryu is quite solid, for me being a Ryu player, the reason I feel that makes the matchup against Sim easy for me is the c.lk’s…those being able to stuff out some of Sim’s best pokes helps out tremendously in this matchup.
I actually don’t hurricane kick too much against Sim, unless I’m within range to where I know it can’t be punished. On knockdown, Sim is in a heap of trouble though.
For me personally, my views of some matchup for Ryu in HF.
RyuvsGuile 6:4 - I’ve always felt this was a 6-4 in HF because Guile always had to resort to having to jump in sooner or later, and that usually meant getting stuffed out. Because Ryu can almost relentlessly pressure Guile with Hadoukens, resulting in him having to block for chip, jumping up, shooting a SB if he has the charge, or jumping forward. The only time I can see this match up ever going into Guile’s favor is if he’s got Ryu cornered, or he scores a knockdown.
RyuvsBlanka 5:5 - I never felt this match was ever and advantage but even. Simply because Blanka has the tools that helps him to move in on Ryu quite effeciently. Vertical Rolls might not work as well against Ryu as it would against many other characters, however Blanka’s quick jumping ability helps him out against Ryu. Plus he’s got very good range on his pokes, like c.fp and c.fk. On a knockdown, Blanka can do some serious hurt to Ryu, for me, I’ve always felt that if you had two characters of equal ability playing these characters, it would come down to who screwed up the most which would decide the victor.
RyuvsBalrog 3:7 - Honestly, for me, I feel this is Ryu’s most difficult matchup within Hyper Fighting. That Inv. TurnPunch is the bane for Ryu, because you just cannot keep any form of a consistent zoning game with Hadoukens. Balrog can keep rushing down just outside of Ryu’s footsie range and punish him with Turn Punches against Ryu. However it’s dangerous to even try and footsie with Ryu as well, simply because Rog’s range is better then Ryu’s.
I’ve even had it where Rog players will do s.fp on tradeshot with me when I do Hadouken…only to lose more energy, however even worse now the Rog player has better positioning. Ryu from my own experience, only has a fighting chance if he can score a knockdown, either by baiting the turnpunch to score a shoryuken, etc. Then rely upon ticking into throws, crossups, and his high/low jab mixups, you are just simply resorted to this against a good Rog Player. Rog imo is a countermatchup for Ryu.
RyuvsHonda 7:3 - E. Honda just doesn’t have any tools to really help him up against Ryu in this matchup. He get’s punished severely with projectiles with headbutts being almost nullified in this matchup, and his Sumo Drop can go through fireballs, however it will usually end with Ryu stuffing it out with a c.fk. E. Honda will ultimately resort to having to take the risk of jumping forward, which is easy pickings for a shoryuken or another c.fk. Then Ryu can just simply zone again with projectiles with E. Honda on wakeup, pushing him back to square one.
This is all I can say for now for Ryu, since I’m quite busy atm
I know I’m posting a lot but that’s just because I have time. I think I agree with Crayfish in that none of these matchups should really be 8-2. I’m going to fix these numbers. I should probably add increments of .5 because Zangief is not getting enough credit versus shotos. I need to fix ken’s numbers too.
I completely with True Sephiroth on Ryu vs Sim. I don’t hurricane that much against dhalsim either, but I know iit’s there when I need it. Cr.lk really works well against dhalsim, and yes crayfish, I got it from the tomo vid. I don’t really use iit because I want to stuff moves, it’s more of a distraction move for me.
ryu vs balrog can be pretty difficult especially if balrog has one button TAPs.
Newest one.
I wouldn’t mind hosting a HF tourney at EVO world '08.
I have all the video capture/recording equipment (direct capture).
I’ll post up some info about Gief when I have more time.
EDIT:
I don’t ever do money matches, but after reading this thread, I really wanna take on some of you guys.
TrueSeph & Zoolander:
If you guys go to EVO world, MM $30 first to 10 ?
There’s plenty of time to practice.
Look good to me and sweetJ really knows his shit:tup:
EDIT: i’m definitely goin to evoworld08 so yeah i’m down for MM anyone then n although i will have learned to use stick by then if by chance i still play better on a 360pad we would have to play HF on a 360.
EDIT2: i apologize for derailing this thread but i’m glad i got that matchup chart looks pretty clean to me.
I’m gonna disagree with a bunch of those matchups. I mainly play Gief and Honda, but I also dabble in Boxer and Claw, so here’s what I think about their matchups.
Gief kills Boxer, it’s 7-3 easy, 8-2 maybe, so let’s say 7.5-2.5. Gief loses to Guile more like 4-6 or 3.5-6.5. Gief either goes even with or beats Ryu and Ken, it’s somewhere like 5-5 or 6-4. Gief loses to Sagat probably more like 3.5-6.5 or 3-7. Gief loses to Honda, probably 3-7. Gief beats Claw like 6-4 and Dictator like 7-3.
Honda beats Gief, Claw, and Dictator 7-3.
Boxer beats Ryu and Ken 7-3. Boxer goes more even with Chun, like 4.5-5.5. Boxer dies to Gief, 7.5-2.5. Boxer and Claw go even at 5-5.
Claw loses to Ryu and Ken, but only like 4-6, 4.5-5.5 maybe. Claw goes even with Boxer at 5-5.
Will take into consideration. It’s pretty much agreed that ryu is number 1, so it’s hard for me to put boxer at 7-3 ryu, same with gief. I’ve been owned by various gief players but if ryu is truly number 1, i think the lowest you can put for him is 4.5-5.5 for whatever.
I do agree gief versus guile is more like 4-6, but again, that knockdown factor, and it’s hard to reversal.
Boxer definitely beats Ryu and Ken. HF Boxer is such an interesting character because he’s the only character I’ve ever known who beats fireball characters and loses to non-fireball characters. Ryu and Ken depend on their fireballs for spacing, and in their matchup against Boxer they can’t use them because tap gets right through them.
Gief goes even with or beats the shotos for the same reason: he gets through fireballs. The lariat doesn’t blow through fireballs like tap does, but it does make fireballs much less useful from a distance and dangerous from up close.
As for Gief v Guile, if Gief gets in, he’ll probably deal a whole bunch of damage, but Guile can keep him out reasonably well with low forward through punch lariat and flash kick or various normals through kick lariat. Not a huge advantage for Guile, but it’s there.
TAP goes through fireball, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to hit ryu with a tap. If he used it from full screen, you won’t reach, or if it was a slow fireball, you might go through only to be greeted with an “allyoucan” in the face, or a sweep.
What happens when you block a jump rh, and he’s walking towards you, you can’t reverse throw every time, and he has the option of dragonpunching or throwing you. Then come the tick throw shenanigans, and cross up tricks. Don’t expect all shoto players to just throw fireballs all day. I think Apoc also once said that even though he has TAP, he doesn’t have a reversal so the matchup is still not in his favor.
And with Zangief, yes zangief goes through fireballs. Fireballs are a big part of keeping gief out, but honestly now, I rarely use fireballs against gief anymore, usually only when i’m using it to cancel a low forward or low rh, and every so often just randomly at a safe distance.
All in all as a ryu player, I definitely fear a good chun over anyone else, and dread fighting sagat (because all he does is throw tigers, why do you think justin wong uses him). Then comes guile, I enjoy the matchup however.
Online my counters to shotos are blanka, bison, and used to be balrog too.
Yeah I had gief guile as 3-7 before, then 4-6, now 4.5-5.5. So I know what you mean.
Boxer was known back in the day as the Ryu killer. Ryu has effective things other than just his fireball, for sure, but that’s definitely the strongest and most important part of his game. You’re right, Ryu is forced to use things other than his fireballs, but Boxer has great antiairs, good pokes, and tap goes through most pokes anyway. Ryu definitely loses this match.
Ryu can’t effectively keep Gief out of footsie/poke range, and both characters are good in that kind of game. Ryu can still keep Gief out, but if Gief gets in, he deals big damage. This is definitely at least even.
And does Justin even play HF? I’ve never seen it, if it’s happened, and I don’t know why he’d pick Sagat when he tends to pick a game’s most dominant character.
According to the australia tourney he went to, in which he won every single game, he picked sagat in HF.
Will consider revising numbers should more people agree. Nothing will ever be perfect, but yeah just trying here.
I can see Claw having a little easier time against Ken, but it seems like Ryu should be a harder matchup for claw than Ken is. Ryu hits harder and his hurricane kick is just too good.
I only dabble with Claw, so maybe that’s not the case. But it seems weird to me that they’re both rated the same.
PS: Talking about all these match-ups is fun 
You’re right I think ryu does better than ken against claw because of HK, I had it more in favor of ryu than ken before, but changed it hoping to give some more points to ken. Maybe his faster dp makes a difference I dunno.
Wouldnt Kens longer Ranged DP make Claws wall Diving games really tough? Just a question I dont know Hyper Fighting to well.
Now this is getting good. Really back on track. And Evo, dare we dream? :bgrin:
Boxer does destroy Ryu…this is comming from me, a Ryu player for HF since…forever. If you fight a good boxer, those damn Turn Punches are just too vicious, and you can rushdown on Ryu with almost no fear, due in part because his Hadouken isn’t a threat, you have better range then Ryu. On tradeshots, it’ll usually be you>Ryu, and will usually put you in a better positioning game over Ryu.
UltraDavid is very correct, Hadouken is one of, or arguably the biggest reason why Ryu is so good in HF, with that almost limited, it takes away from his positioning game greatly.
HF. Rog may not do well up against other characters, but against Shotos, he’s very effective, Ryu is one of those characters where even Apoc has stated that Rog has a big advantage over.
Ryu vs Zangief from my experience is around 5:5 as well, I just don’t believe Ryu has an advantage here. Simply because of Lariat going through projectiles, now if he could recover like Guile, then I would say otherwise. If Gief scores a SPD or knockdown, this severely goes into Gief’s advantage. However if Ryu can consistently keep Gief guessing with some projectiles, footsies and even having him guessing so that he may even have to jump forward, then the matchup will lean towards Ryu. It’s one of those matchups where it again comes down to who really makes the most mistakes.
R C, don’t keep your hopes up for me, we’ll see how competition goes for me personally, not only that, but I’m going to S. Korea next year to spend maybe a good 6+ months there for many reasons I will not explain here. Again, it will depend, however if I do infact go to Evo, I’ll definetly except the MM with you.
Ok I updated ryu gief to 5:5 and ryu balrog to 4.5-5.5, even though I don’t agree. The same goes for ken. Ken claw is lower than before. Honda gets .5 more on gief, claw, and bison. guile gets solid 6 on gief again. Last update for today, I need to study for a midterm test.
I’m glad we can back to HF and not any other nonsense (admittedly most of which i started) so IMO this is what it looks like for sagat:
sagat/ryu: It’s 4-6 cuz ryus lp srks are a pain in the ass for sagat especially if sagat is cornered a ryu player can abuse it without fear of sagats TU reversing it cuz srk beats TU clean so sagat just has to wait to sweep with cr rh.
sagat/ken: 4.5-5.5 this is a much better matchup for sagat since he don’t have to worry bout knocking down hurricanes n followup attacks though ken still has an advantage due to lp srk this matchup is much more even.
sagat/guile: 4-6 (maybe 5-5) This is a tossup cuz sagat wins if he can keep guile out n bait jumpins but if guile gets up close then his CPS1 chains end the round, also if guile scores a knockdown its hard for sagat to get position when he gets up cuz a followup SB can lead to jumpins so i give guile a sklight advantage simply cuz it’s easier for him to get in then it is for sagat to keep him out.
sagat/blanka: 5-5 blanks j. rh beats out sagats TU unless sagat does it late and tigerknee is useless as AA since it has short range though a single TU does hella damage and knocksdown letting him followup with fb’s so this is more or less even i jus think blanka has a very slight advantage cuz his foward/upballs n high jump arc let him get in fiarly easily.
sagat/chun: 6-4 sagat he has the TU to knock chun out of the air during her SBK’s and while chuns has a solid ground/closeup game against him she relies on SBK tricks to get up close.
sagat/honda: 6-4 sagat can keep honda out fairly easily the only thing honda has going for him is headbut over low fb’s and croner sagat with handslaps.
geif: 6-4 This is harder then honda cuz geif can do more damage up close then honda but it’still in sagats favor cuz geifs’s legs are prime targets for low fbs especially if the geif players like to lariat alot.
sagat/sim: 5-5 sim has all the tools to rape sagat HOWEVER this is HF and sims damage/priority has been nerfed more then enough to make it matchup go either way.
sagat/claw: 6-4 claw loses flip/flashkicks and sagat does hella TU damage to discourage walldives however claws poking game while nerfed is still enough to keep this matchup from being lopsided.
sagat/dic: 6,5-3.5? I honestly don’t know this matchup well cuz i seem to get hit by devils reverse alot more in HF i don’t know why anyways dic still has his stupid torpedo into throw garbage but sagat does hella damage and dic has to work alot harder to deal damage then sagat.
sagat/boxer: 4-6 (maybe more) Boxer can tap though fb’s while sagat has to rely on baiting a jump or tap so he can TU in response…not easy from personal experience sagat has to work alot harder n play a smart fb game to keep boxer out for any amount of time.
EDIT: i would love to see this at EVO.
Orochi, if you look at the chart, you will see you mostly agree on everything. Sim still has to work harder than sagat so it can’t be 5-5 imo. And balrog has to work harder too so 6-4 for both. Fuck my formulas are messed up must fix…
here
Top Tier
- Ryu, Guile (Tied)
- Sagat
- Chun
- Ken
Mid Tier
6. Blanka
7. Honda
8. Zangief
Low Tier
9. Dhalsim
10. Bison (Dictator)
11. Balrog (Boxer
12. Vega (Claw)
I think Sim beats Sagat. Limbs under high tigers, mummy drill over low tigers, bye-bye most of Sagat’s zoning game.