IMO it seems like ryu, guile , n blanka have the fewest bad matchups.
He is nerfed…you telling me his punishing pokes not having as much range, such as c.mk, flashkicks hit boxed toned down, Sonicboom tone downs not nerfs? You’ve got to be joking me, he is nowhere near CE lvl at all.
Pokes, still work of course, but they are slightly nerfed. Look at CE/HF. Ryu’s pokes, they are near rapid fire out in the open, and have alot of priority. ST. Ryu cannot do the same, this is my notion of nerfed. Not to the point of they aren’t usable…wow, read and look at the differences, it’s there, it’s visible and noticeable. Why do you think many people playing in ST now don’t like the jab priorities of the shotos in the earlier CE/HF days.
Guiles chains where not a start up Invincible Frame startup that could hit from mid-screen and in some cases like O. Sagat Full Screen BS. Honestly, talk to anyone who played HF at the super high lvls, it was tough to land combos…read what the best had to say, landing combos was rare in HF. Because doing things like trying to jump in took far more greater risk, then waiting for a mistake and unleashing a nearly half-life draining super with might I add inv. start up.
Sim has a tough time up against Rog, how does he “not” have a bad matchup? Rog on tradeshots earns better damage, upclose, Rog can do great mixups and positioning to dominate Sim. This matchup is nowhere in Sim’s matchup, this is tough for him to win, just watch Wolfe take on any great Rog.
I’m pretty sure O. Sagat is indeed soft banned in ST, I remember reading this numerous times and in other ST threads, however I will infact go find the info on it again, but I am 99.9% sure O. Sagat is soft banned in Japan.
How many people of the 99% today where playing when HF was at it’s peak in the big tournametns like Worlds Finest? I guarantee 95% of us are 2nd Generation, even someone like Valle who played for a time in the earlier SF games says he’s 2nd Generation. You have alot of top players during HF dislike ST…ask Tomo, ask Jeff, they all despise ST (for many reasons that I don’t like ST as much as HF). Even ask Viscant, a player who is a ST player, even he’s stated in other post that Hyper Fighting had the game mechanics that was done right.
Shit I will agree that HF or ST can be debated to death, and can get ugly, however I will refrain from talking about these again…since you brought it up in the first place.
If you do not honestly believe that characters like Guile, Blanka where not nerfed in ST…then something is seriously wrong with you. Sim and Balrog where being improved while other modifications where made to have the rest getting toned down.
Ryu was even nerfed in ST, although still strong, he’s not CE/HF strong. ST. Ryu having a 12-40 Hadouken instead of his beastly original version, jab tone downs, Hurricane kick losing alot of priority+no invincible startup or on drop.
Just look at Gief, he now has an animation into his SPD, and he can no longer do c.mk into SPD on block…something that made him beastly in HF.
Guile’s c.mk not having the same range as his older versions, as well as Flashkicks having a smaller hitbox and SB nerfs…are these not tone downs?
However seriously, enough of fucken ST, or AE…I don’t want to argue that shit on a Hyper Fighting Thread anymore.
Back to Hyper Fighting now…as for this game, honestly, my buddies over this weekend, and we go way back playing Hyper Fighting. One plays HF. Rog and even to this day…I still for the love of me, have trouble with this matchup. Stupid Turn Punches that really put a stomp on Ryu’s Hadouken game.
Makes me result to knockdowns, cross ups, high/low jabs, tick throws, lmao…this is a tough matchup for Ryu in HF. We played about 30 matches, and I didn’t even win half of those 
.
Sim also has a hard time VS dictator. Dictator gets used to counter sim in ST. Im not sure what tier dictator is in HF
So I made a matchup list to find the tiers for this game.
My original tier list was
A+ Ryu, Guile
A Sagat, Ken
B+ Chun Blanka so
- ryu
- guile
- sagat
- ken
- chun
- blanka
after this probably imo - gief
- honda
- sim
- boxer
- bison
- claw
And this is my new tier list after making matchup list of wins and losses out of 10 matches between two equally skilled players.
What do you guys think is wrong with this? number wise, what matchups do you think I’m incorrect on? obviously I do not have claw or dictator last anymore and sagat is higher than guile. Sorry it’s not the most pretty chart. I want to see if by talking we can all agree on something.
edit: tell me if the link works, RC says he sees a chick covered in bananas.
LMAO.
The link works now.
That shit was hilarious.
^^The chart is too small i can’t see anything and how can u say sagat is tiered higher/has better matchups then guile? guile is at the very least in the top3 those CPS1 chains AIN’T NO JOKE.
Heres a tierlist i’m sure we all can agree on and then we can rely on matchups to back it up:
#1ryu
#2guile, blanka
#3ken, chun, sagat
#4geif, boxer, honda
#5sim
#6 claw, dic
^^IMO thats as DEFINITIVE a tier grouping as u can get in HF. I think it’s safe to say we all agree that at the very least ryu, guile, n blanka are top3 and claw n dic are bottom 2.
So i would like to see what yall think are the matchups are for everyone else.
I would put ken above chun n sagat simply cuz his lp srk shares the same invincibility+startup as ryu’s, while sagats bad matchups are ryu, ken n to a lesser extent guile while boxer is SUPPOSED to be a bad matchup for sagat i would say it’s even as for chun i don’t know.
goddamn, you reek of suck.
misinformation is worse than no information.
Cool chart! I’m far from an expert on all these match-ups, but I play Sim a lot, so I’ll go over what I think about the numbers for him:
Sim/Ryu: 3 sounds about right. If you play really carefully, you can do OK, but Ryu’s HK is tough stuff, his cr.LK stuffs a lot of your stuff, and random jab DP’s can give your pokes problems.
Sim/Sagat: I’d go 3 here…maybe even 4. Sagat hits hard! But unlike Ryu, he doesn’t have anything other than his uppercut that really gives you major problems. You can maneuver around his fireballs and you can beat his jump-ins with your slide.
Sim/Guile: 3 seems a bit low here too. I might go with a 4 or 5. You can punch/slide under his booms, you can zone him pretty well, and you can AA his jump-ins pretty easily. You have to play this match kind of defensively though. If you try to rush him down, Guile’s straight up jump FP stuffs you hard and he can reverse your’e noogies with a flash kick.
Sim/Ken: There’s no way I’d give him a 3 here. I’d probably give Sim at least a 6 here. Since Ken’s HK doesn’t knock down it means you can zone him a LOT better than Ryu. You can spam yoga fires all day long, because even if he goes through your yoga fires with a HK, you usually have a chance to do something even if you get hit. Ken also like to spam jab DP, which is easy to punish. The only thing you really gotta watch out for is letting him get on top of you and mixing up simple dizzy combos with tick-throws.
Sim/Chun: I think 4 is being generous. I’d give Sim a 2…maybe a 3 here. Chun pretty much wrecks Sim. Her attacks are really high priority, and she seems to get the priority on throws a lot, for some weird reason. Also, lightning legs and SBK hurt a LOT of you screw up against them.
Sim/Blanka: I’d downgrade Sim to a 3 here. Like Chun, Blanka has a lot of high priority jump-ins that are hard to AA. He does a little better against Blanka, because you can annoy him in the corner with drills. But that’s only if you get him in the corner. If he gets you in the corner, his up-ball tricks are really tough to get out of without taking some decent damage.
Sim/Honda. I think a 6 is a little too high here too. I’d probably go with a 5, maybe even a 4. In theory, you’ve got the moves to keep Honda out. But, a rushdown Honda can really give you trouble. His moves are high-priority and half the time you try to counter him from closer up, it allows him to grab you from further away then normal. The big problem is that you have to counter him correctly a lot, since you do so little damage, wheras it only takes one or two screwups for him to obliterate you.
Sim/Dictator: 4 sounds about right. Maybe a 3…but probably not.
Sim/Claw: I kind of waffle between 4 and 3 on this one too.
Sim/Gief: Yeah, 7 sounds about right.
Sim/Boxer: I might go up to a 6 on this one. Boxer hits hard, but you can pretty much zone him out most of the time. Even if he TAPs through your fire, as long as he’s aways away when he does it, you can throw out another move to catch him as he comes through it.
I’m curious what you guys think about these adjustments, and I’d love to hear people that specialize in other characters talk about those match-ups!
Thanks a lot. The problem also is that it depends on whether it’s in a long set or short set. In a long set, sim would definitely do better overall, and in a short set, zangief who is low could beat down anyone on the cast after a knockdown.
sim/sagat- yeah i think 2-8 is too favorable to sagat too so probably 3-7
sim/guile-yeah I didn’t discover that straight up jump fierce until recently, but it’s really good against sim haha. I’ll put 4-6 here instead since guile does have to work, but he still has adv imo.
sim/ken 5-5 I find it rather hard to think sim has an adv against ken, although I could see how you might think that. Instead of 3-7 i’ll put 5-5. He still has cr.lk and dp like ryu.
sim/chun 3-7 adjusted
sim/blanka-3-7 adjusted, I’ve been having good success with this matchup after watching that video of yours.
sim honda 5-5- I think dhalsim wins in the long run but 2/3 honda for sure. This is probably 4-6 in favor of honda.
sim/bison 4-6
sim/vega 4-6
sim/gief-3-7
sim/rog 6-4 adjusted as you requested.
I changed it and the points change, chun is now above ken.
tell me if it works
i know i dont post in this thread much but i do really like reading it so orochizoolander can you please stop shitting it up with your terrible posts thanks in advance
U’ve way underestimated Sim. The only matches you get anything like 3/7 is vs Blanka and Honda (hell I would only have maybe a handful of matches in the whole game that lopsided, like Shoto vs Honda). Sim can’t deffend against Blanka’s air assualt in HF, so its a total blitz. Honda dominates on hit trades alone, like a tank.
Some matches:
Sim vs Ryu:
[media=youtube]NxkjOox7YaE[/media]
&
[media=youtube]alB749USy-E[/media]
A top UK ST player had noted to me that Sim does so well against Shotos because his old HK slide has way bigger range in HF. I don’t have the numbers on this (RC?), but just look at how far out Sim is countering Ryu’s FB, and on reaction too, he just can’t throw anything once it gets near half screen. Light DP doesnt pay off in terms of risk reward against Sim’s poking game esp as Sim has s.MK, again see matches. c.LK (which I asume you got off the Tomo vid) is useful in certain situations, but far from a real match defining technique.
Sim vs Claw:
[media=youtube]NYXHpO3xRp4[/media]
Sim vs Sagat:
[media=youtube]gd2Eb7xrQ0Q[/media]
And here is Apoc’s (best HF Boxer player the West ever produced) breakdown of Sim vs Rog, where he has it also in (slight) favor of Sim:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=3133540&postcount=8
One from China:
[media=youtube]AJv1UthcUHI[/media]
HF Sim still has all the classic Sim sickness that makes him great, insane pokes, ticks, counters etc… just with reduced damage. The matchups play mostly (not Blanka etc…) the same, but just take a little more time and patience to play out.
Ditto. You know I used to put a disclaimer at the start of threads I made, coss the same stupid things would wreck every single thread. I thought things had moved on, but it seems we still have to fight these same battles …sigh…
1). If you have a point to make about HF, do it in HF FFS. If you want to talk about AE or CE go the appropriate (excellent) threads and discuss it there. http://forums.shoryuken.com/forumdisplay.php?f=223
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=71172
Having to refrence other games is not only a sygnal of ignorance about the game Ur discussing, it invaribly leads to my fave game is better than U’r fave game, then invaribly onto the pro/cons of Parrys…
2). If you wanna arrange online games, and give “GG’s dude” shout outs, again use the appropriate threads. Hell I devoted a whole section to this in the first post, let me paste here AGAIN:
" 3rd come and join the SRK Kaillera chat channel to organise some matches:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=135807
I’ll be in there whenever I can. 
XBOX 360 LIVE RESOURCES:
SFII Turbo: HF - Good Times Thread:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=117649
Xbox SF2 HF forums:
http://forums.xbox.com/474/ShowForum.aspx "
Hell it may even encourage more online HF play in those threads, and make like …a contribution!
3). Do not post up pages of you opinions based on a few hours of matches against scrubs online, when U’ve not even taken the time to read the resources that top players have already written on the same thing from years of top level experience. Mostly I dont post up my opinions on all but a few matchups because I dont know how they go at high level and therefore are worthless. READ THE FUCKING THREAD…
This was susposed to be a ‘resource’ for people who want to ‘learn’ about and play the game. And by and large thats (with the help of all the excellent posters here) what its been.
Even I can’t even be bothered to wade thru all this crap to find the things of value if the current trend continues.
Reduced damage…and reduced priority. I agree in principle in your reasoning. In theory, Sim has all the moves he needs to win(In every match except maybe Chun Li). In practice, however, his lack of priority and damage means that he has to outplay his opponent in most matches. Sure, if he does outplay them, then he wins. But most of his opponents can make many mistakes and still come out on top. For Sim, it only takes a couple to lose.
Those videos were a lot of fun to watch, but to be honest the Ryu player didn’t seem to know the matchup that well. He spammed the hurricane kick, which worked pretty well, but he played the rest of the match too much like Ryu would play most matches. Against Sim, you don’t want to throw a bazillion fireballs. You just want to throw enough to get him into a fireball contest so you can do a random hurricane kick and knock him down, and then follow up with c.LK/cross-up/tick-throw shenanigans.
Against Claw, Sim got lucky. Yeah, if you can stay on top of Claw, you can win. But if you give him space to breathe, the match goes a lot differently. And, in practice that happens more often than not.
The Sagat vid, however, does make me want to change my vote to a solid 4. Sim definitely can use his moves to his advantage here. I think Sagat still has a slight edge, because of his damage, but Sim’s not at a total loss to stop him.
I couldn’t download the first boxer vid. Megaupload said the file has expired…or some such nonsense. The other vid though, made me feel good about my call of 6-4 in favor of Sim here. Even though he lost this match, it was obvious that it was because of some lucky hits/dizzies and not his overall ability to compete.
Agreed.
Seriously, if you guys are about to post something and go to type AE, ST, or CE…stop…and then delete everything you’ve typed. In addition, if you begin to type something based on something you heard, or something you noticed about 3 guys online…stop…and ask a question about that, to see if it really holds water, instead of stating some “fact” that isn’t true at all.
There’s been a lot of nonsense, talk of other games, and straight-up mis-information in the past few pages here. Let’s stop with all that, and get back to some HF goodness :tup:
I think it’s safe to post this :xeye:
HF next Evo. Petition it!
That’d be dope as fuck! We should, at the very least, organize a side tourney or something. There was some talk of it last year, but nothing ever happened :sad:
Im not a hater, but I have HF on xbox live, and the god dam dizzy system really gets me pissed sometimes.
especially when noobs pick E. Honda and have you in the corner doing the BURBURBURBURBURBURBUR and your blocking but still getting owned.
If this goes down, somebody definitely needs to record the matches for us poor folk who can’t attend evo.
Jeeez, I might even save up to go to evo if HF was there. I suck at saving money, but just saying.
My first post here too, I think, yet I agree.
Crayfish: I definitely see your point, but I honestly think Sim has to work harder to win in almost every match. In those matches the dhalsim seemed clearly better than the other players.
The Ryu player, I agree with SweetJohnny, he didn’t have the best play style, and he was completely playing the dhalsim game. In the long run, I’d say dhalsim does better than ryu but still 6-4 ryu at least, I think I put 7-3. When I watched Jason Cole vs John Choi in evo west ST finals (I know it’s not HF), Sim clearly has the adv in ST, but Choi still won, and I think they are equal players. Sim must play perfectly and still react, whereas Ryu is more prone to getting “lucky guess” and capitalizing on it with shenanigans.
Claw vs Sim- That was a really impressive vid, I think I’ve seen dhalsim rape Vega before too. I’d probably change this from 6-4 to 5-5.
Sim vs Sagat- I’ve always known sim has the tools to beat sagat, but I think this matchup is 4-6 in ST, so it makes sense for me to put 3-7 in HF. I’ll just change it.
Sim vs Boxer-I agree which is why I changed it to 6-4 Dhalsim.
Sim vs Honda-Apparently nobody agrees with me this is an even match or i’ll probably change this in favor of honda.
Sim vs Chun-I truly think Chun li destroys Dhalsim, but if you can find me vids, I think I could change my mind.
I think Dhalsim/Blanka is not that bad for dhalsim.
New Chart. Sorry about the old one, it didn’t add up the totals for some reason correctly.
Sagat is now tied with guile. Dhalsim is above claw and dictator which makes sense to me overall, though those guys have adv against dhalsim IMO.