The SF2 Hyper Fighting Thread

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
583

No offense, but these guys I highly doubt would’ve been able to have stood up to against the likes of guys like Tomo Ohira, Jeff Schaeffer, and Watson within there prime. These guys played HF and had infinitely better competition then what you see on XBL, no if’s, and’s or but’s…you can sit here and try to argue that, that just won’t hold enough water.

The fact, these guys played literally 8+ hrs a day, some of them having agents and stuff…seriously, this was like a job for them…a very fun job.

Although that video of AE may not be HF, it shows a small glimpse of how good Jeff was, he beat a Daigo basically in his prime at the time (around 04) in AE…yes, this is the same Daigo who won ST at Evo that very year I believe. However, Jeff hadn’t been in serious competition for 10+ years, he wasn’t used to the game speed as well, and everything. Yet out of the majority of the matches, he won.

Seriously, Jeff being able to Uppercut things like E. Honda’s Headbutt just outside of sweep range or about the distance from when you start the matchup on reaction, is just simply amazing…nobody today I know can even do that.

Tomo had 100+ touranments under his belt, and only 4 out of those 100+ tournaments did he not take 1st, but 2nd, and he was never ever brought into the losers bracket…ever! Watson who was in his absolute prime during those days, said he went against Tomo in HF Ryu vs Ryu and he’d lose 70-30…that’s an impressive gap.

Even Kuni vouched that Tomo would have been in the Top 2 in Japan if he went there to play, and that’s saying alot. I seriously don’t believe for a second that these guys on XBL would’ve been able to have hung with the best from HF in the 90’s.

I agree with Polarity, ST isn’t the best, too many unnecessary nerfs. Shit like Guile’s flash kick being nerfed was retarded, it’s hit-box is just horrible, not to mention pokes, and Guile’s pokes if you play CE/HF, you’ll see huge difference in them in ST.

Actually, I never really liked the pokes overall being slightly nerfed…like Ryu’s jabs…I loved to use them back in the day of CE/HF, especially using c.lk’s to stuff out Sim’s pokes…however in ST, it’s just not the same anymore. Throw nerfing was always a big issue for me, and I never, ever liked Super Specials. Like Rog’s Super landing once could completely turn the tide of the battle if he was losing, which to me is just outrageous.

O. Sagat is imo the best overall besides Gouki of course. He can just dominate too powerfully, I remember a Japanese player in Japan who plays ST. Sagat, however if he chooses O. Sagat, nobody there can beat him. The only reason why he doesn’t choose O. Sagat is because he’s soft banned there.

ST may have better cosmetics and look overall, but HF had the most polished game engine which to me is more important than anything else.

However, this is the Hyper Fighting thread, I believe we’ve derailed it enough, let’s get back to just talking about Hyper Fighting :bgrin:.

584

Crouching Fierce Kick ?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

585

That limits alot of characters on footsie games, infact if you read up on it, the Tom o vs Wats matchups back in those days, that’s what it literally came down too, footsies…being able to do that on reaction, can do wonders to your advantage.

586

I think this ^ is the reason why you can’t really say this

That vid of Mike Watson’s HF guile in Crayfish’s doesn’t really mean anything. Sure we mostly agree guile is number #2 in the game, but this vid doesn’t have any convincing evidence as beastly as watson’s guile was, because he was playing against a regular guy that doesn’t even play HF in a random 1 dollar hf tourney, not one of those og players.

zoolander: narcissus caesar is one of the better guys i’ve played, and he’s on my buddy list. i haven’t played decoy or kj but even then I wouldn’t want to because they live on the east coast whereas I’m in california=laggy as hell. I’d say offline narcissus would probably be slightly better than me. He’s probably an og player. His guile is pretty solid, and in mirror matches as well. I don’t know how he did it but he once connected meaty low forward, far stand strong into fierce flashkick on my vega in the corner.

sweetjohhny: Completely agree with offline vs online stuff. Hm, I never tried sim’s standing jab against ryu/ken’s jump rh, I just use slides :slight_smile:

587

There’s going to be a HF tournament (on an arcade cabinet) at Season’s Beatings II this weekend. Is anyone else going to be there?

588

That’s not footsies. Footsies refers to when you and your opponent are on the ground and step in and out of range where your ground pokes(cr. MK, etc) will hit each other. Like True Sephiroth’s mentioned, Ryu punishing guile’s whiffed cr.MK is a good example of this. Online, it’s just to hard to react with quick pokes like that most of the time.

Yeah, most of the time slides are the better choice. However, it depends on the spacing. Sometimes you’ll be in a spot where they’re jumping in where you’re slide may take you too far under them, so that they don’t land on it. You can still use the slide here and go for a throw, but you might eat a DP instead. This is usually when i use st.Jab instead of the slide. Also, I think st.Jab only works well if they’re almost on top of you anyway. If you try it from further out, I think you’ll get hit.

I’d go if I lived out that way, but im in SoCal. I hope it goes well though! You should try to get someone to record some matches and post 'em up here.:wink:

589

CE guile in AE is overpowered n don’t mistake me for meaning that as “cheap” of “unfair” in ST he’s #8 out of 32…mid toptier in ST sounds pretty damn good to me so while he may not be as powerful as CE he’s by no means that much worse off.

…what do u mean pokes overall being nerfed? IF you ever seen high level ST comp you’d see pokes and footsies are most of what goes on. ST has tech throws is that what u call throw nerfing? cuz 99% of SRK and anyone who plays SF2 at all sees that as a MAJOR improvement adding another much needed balancing factor to discourage walkin/reversal throws, and if u think boxers super is outrageous then what do u think about guiles CPS1 chains:looney:

Excluding akuma O.sagat is the 2nd best in the game the best being sim simply cuz he has no bad matchups O.sagat however is countered by sim the match is 7-3 in sims favor his entire low FB game is shutdown by sim who can drillkick over a low FB and long reaching limbs+noogie traps make this a very difficult matchup for O.sagat also claw who is #3 has a slight advantage against O.sagat and boxer who is #5 has a slight advantage over him cuz he can turnpunch n headrush through FB’s and once he gets meter it’s over cuz a single whiffed FB by O.sagat will means boxers super is gonna blow through it. O.sagat isn’t softbanned in japan claw is.

I’m pretty sure sirlin and 99% of SRK would say ST is the more polished and advanced fighting engine especially considering mindgames n skill factor significantly heavier in that then in HF however i’m not saying ST is a better game then HF it’s all opinion i love both games i jus happen to like ST more cuz of the way it plays.

Polarity: It’s not that blanka geif n guiile are nerfed (read bove bout guile) it’s just that the top4 (1sim, 2o.sagat, 3claw, 4boxer) are VERY good…Yeah thats enough derailing lol back to HF.

I would like to see what RC’s personal tier listing/grouping looks like.

EDIT: evilJ You can checkout real decoy’s blanka on the first post of this thread (in the vid he’s playing against some decent guys on xbl) n u should hit me up sometime cuz if u can give caesar comp then i’m sure u can give me a few good matches cuz i won’t say he’s better then me but i can’t say i’m better then him either considering we haven’t played for awhile.

590

what the fuck happened to this thread.

591

ME:badboy:

LOL whatever enough of that shit I just wan to see RC postup sagats hitboxes!!!

592

Can you un-happen to this thread pls

593

uh no dude blanka gief and guile ARE fucking nerfed, blanka loses the hit on the way down from vert ball plus a bunch of other stuff i’m probably not aware of, gief loses lower body invincibility on his kkk lariat which was a huge aid to him in getting in, guile’s booms have longer recovery, hitbox on low fwd is worse etc… it’s not even up for debate

594

Man… Who cares? This is the stupidest thing to write about.

They are different games… As soon as you add super arts, new characaters, new moves, change old moves, and tech throws, it comparing apple to oranges.

They’re both great games. I love to play them both.

Nothing in is the arguement is making anybody any better at HF.

This reminds me of that jpeg floating around the interente a while back…

“Arguing over the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you?re still a F’n retard…”

595

My thoughts exactly.

A perfectly good bowl of soup can easily be ruined with a couple strands of hair.

596

Here man, I found it…

Learn it, live it, know it… and your life will be a better place!

597

orochi don’t bother trying to debate against True Sephiroth, he’s set in his ways and won’t compromise, besides its all about opinions anyway, and no one opinion can be wrong or right.

598

^^^Makes sense anyways Ronnie cheng out of curiosity how wud u tier the cast?

So where are these guys today? jeff schaeffer and tomo ohira? is there any tournament footage of them? cuz i never heard of’em n i’m sure i wold have if he beat daigo like u said he did…i’ll check the first post.

599

They both retired years ago. Tomo hasn’t played since ST came out, and Jeff stopped playing after A2 was released.

For Diago vs Jeff I have them on my mediamax account.

look under SF2AE and all of their matches are the ones in quicktime. The quality is pretty bad but AFAIK those were the only ones released.

For who won, there are 12 files in all, I know Jeff won at least 6 of them as in the title of the file, but one isn’t titled with the outcome so either Jeff split even with Diago 6-6 or had the advantage 7-5. Either way, it was much closer than True Sephiroth is letting on.

Also neither was playing their best. First Jeff hadn’t really played seriously is several years (7-10 years). Meanwhile Diago is playing on american sticks thus is execution is off (if you don’t believe that this can be a factor, reread Zass’s account of when he was in japan when he, Choi and Valle part taken in a SFA3 tournament when Choi and Valle had never played on jap sticks before), also as Zass pointed out there is no speed setting that matches any japanese ST setting so he had to adjust to that as well. So it should only be looked to as a casual matches that ended up being fairly even.

-edit- looks like Jeff won that match, so he won the series 7 to 5.

600

ST is kind of more balanced I mean look at the evo results 2 blankas in the top 10 and a Vega as 1st? Even though claw is top, but characters like Deejay and blanka can do 1 combo and thats game.

I tried to mess around with claw in HF but he just isnt as good as ST Claw

601

Thx for the link shinji.

Claw SUCKS in HF he doesn’t have his flashkick or flipkick, suffers from low priority, and does even worse damage then he does in ST, and i THINK his walldive doesn’t knockdown i’m not sure i’l test this out later tonight but yeah those are the reasons claw in HF is the 2nd worst character as opposed to ST where claw is #3 because of his high priority pokes, flipkicks, and of course the infamous walldive crossup game (watch yuuvegas claw he is currently the top claw player in japan)

What 1 combo can deejay n blanka do that end the game? as far as i know in ST deejay has some nasty 5, 6, n 7 hit crossup combos that aren’t easy to land n even then don’t guarantee dizzy and blanka has a 3hit jumpin that dizzys but doesn’t redizzy and it’s very risky considering his jumpins don’t have the priority or speed that they do in HF.

OK enough about anything non-HF LOL anyways has anyone here played HF when it was big in the arcades? I bet everyone picked ryu, guile, n blanka:lol:

EDIT: evilj hit me up on live tonight.

602

To me, it seems pointless talking about tier lists.

Especially the ones that are listed (exclusively) like this:

  1. Character 01
  2. Character 02
  3. Character 03
    etc.

I’d rather talk about character match ups.

On another note:
to clarify for some people, Frame Data and Hit Box Data are not the same thing.

Hit Box Data:
Refers to the area of a character’s attack and vulnerable parts (red & blue boxes)

Frame Data:
Refers to the timing of a character’s attack (7 frame start up / 4 frame attack / 8 frame recovery).