Concerning the speed issue see my 2nd post in the thread here: http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3131907#post3131907
From timing full rounds in the GaungZhou matchvids and the correct Callus emulation, I found a round should last around 57 seconds (I dont know how this wil rlate to CPS2 as the counter may run at a diffeent rate…).
I’ll check through Obots vids to find a full round time up (if there is one), to time that too. Its certainly slower than ST speed 3. Im sure the different settings in ST are susposed to represent the different versions. If you go into CPS2 system configuration you have 4 speed settings (rather than 3 if you set it to free select). They are labeled differently in the World and JApanese versions, either 0 to 3 or 1 to 4. The first speed is WW the second is CE, the third HF and the fourth is the new ST speed.
I pretty sure the perception of HFs speed is down to:
The memory of the game being hugely faster than previous CE and WW versions when it first arrived.
The fact that HF ‘plays’ fast. Increased speed, high damage, easy exetuion.
Also people primarily playing the emulated versions and the oonsole versions (using the default 3 stars setting) that all run too fast, ater the game dissapeared in most arcades.
Plus the subliminal effect of the game being called ‘Turbo’
The same thing had happened to me, I’d been playing the console then incorrectly emulated versions (mame kawaks) for a long time so when I got those GangZhou vids in 2003 I couldn’t understand why thier arcade version was running so slow. Then I heard about the CPU emulation issue… and have now returned to playing the Callus version of Kawaks set to 7mhz.
Wow, I just tested out my HF board, and it was way, way, way slower than I remember. Looking back on it now, I think when I played HF, I played it on nothing but emus and Capcom Generations 5, which is why I remember HF being this speed: http://nki.combovideos.com/GuileHF.mpeg
(That vid was done with Capcom Generations 5, by the way.)
But now that I’ve played the arcade version, ST is definitely faster.
Man, but I remember HF being faster. Alot faster. I have played on arcades where I was like “Damn, this is faster than the arcade version I have at home”
It felt close to ST speed 3 speeds(USA). It seriously fucks with my timing because I play both ST and HF now.
Oh NKI, can you PM me and tell me how to contribute to the ST WIKI?
I have some stuff done, but alot more to go.:wgrin:
i played this game a ton back in the day, and still do from time to time. one of my favorite aspects about this incarnation of SF2 is that the jump-in became a more viable option due to the speed of the game. turtling became less of a dominant strategy than in previous versions for a number of reasons.
… on a more personal note; i remember seeing this game for the first time at disney world in orlando, FL. being 13 at the time and already a diehard street fighter fan, seeing this game was more amazing than the rollercoasters and fireworks combined that day. instead of meeting all the disney characters and running around the park, i spent close to 10 hours playing anyone who would come up to the machine and offer a challenge(sparing 2 hours for space mountain and the haunted mansion). probably the most shocking aspects of this game were the first time i witnessed chun throw a fireball; immediatly i thought to myself: “that has to be the ugliest fireball i have ever seen”… then came the biggest shock in the form of the dhalsim teleport; shocking enough that it prompted me to pick sim for the first time in over a year atleast. after a good hour of mastering this new technique my conclusion was “the punch/kick, f,hcf/b,hcb combinations are too laborious to master… sim sucks anyway”(if i only knew then what i know now).
HF is nostalgia at it’s best. i still consider this to be the most refined version of street fighter ever created. there are obvious tiers and bad matchups, but every character has solid strategies that, if executed properly, gives him/her a chance against most, if not all, of the cast. imho, capcom’s strategy to not nerf any character, but instead make the weaker ones stronger was the catalyst which made this game so great. i remember people arguing that dictator lost his edge and claw became a beast; but that was then… now an experienced player can exploit dictator almost as well as in CE and any character with a decent anti-air can keep claw at bay. HF will always be one of my fav. games of all time.
I’ve just tested all three revs US, World and Japan (all are numbered 921209) in Winkawaks with the CPU frequency set to 7mhz. They all run the same speed.
I don’t think this really confirms anything, as you’re not running the games on the original hardware. It seems possible to me that perhaps different board revisions had very slight hardware differences (i.e. the clock speed of the processor being set slightly differently), which could account for speed differences on different cabs. Just a theory, though.
Hey guys, that video I sent to Preppy is up in his “zachd/mvc2 videos” thread, I hope you all enjoy it. Big thanks to him for taking the time to encode it!
Thanks for hosting that vid again NKI, I never tire of watching those wild CPS1 chains. Have you or would you ever consider making a CPS1 combovid to go along with your CPS2 ones? That would be cool.
btw to everyone who’s not yet bought it, the excellent ‘INSANITY STARTING OVER HYPER STREET FIGHTER 2 DVD’: http://www.inhgroup.com/item/st2/
features (what I’m pretty sure is) TZW’s origonal Guile exhibition combovideo, that Sean said he took these combos from. Its absolutely awsome, and features imo the most badass combo in SF2. Guile: crossover HP, c.LK CPS1 chain into s.HPxx Flashkick. awsome.
Also NKI, have you ever come accross any HF related sites or info on your journeys around T.Akiba and other Japanese sites, do any of the frame data etc… pages relate to other versions (HF) or only ST?
I found this page of JApanese SF2 links, mainly ST I think, but maybe there is some HF stuff in there too? Anyone…: http://homepage1.nifty.com/camera-ya/kansyou_link.htm
Finding Japanese info on HF is the most important next step (now that Obot has kickstarted the western tourney/ vid scene).
Unfortunately I don’t think it’s possible to give a “use this percentage” answer. It seems that one’s particular MAME configuration makes enough difference to make that impossible. In particular, the MAME version makes a difference too!
100% CPU speed MAME32 v1.03 round speed: 52s
100% CPU speed MAME32 v1.06 round speed: 47s
(note that I can’t be bothered with the command line version, so I use the GUI-style)
Quite a difference. So going by 1.06, with frame skipping on (I guess that’s more likely to give correct results?) I determined that 60% speed is most close to giving a 57s round time, but is a bit slow. However, depending on things like how you have the refresh rates set up (game speed vs monitor speed, vsync etc), 65% may be closer to 57s.
I also tried a few setups without frame skipping, and it seems my computer (1.8GHz turion 64) either can’t keep up 100% or something screwy is going on with frameskipping, because a round is significantly slower, requiring more like 70% CPU speed to get a 57s round.
So basically, you have to time it yourself with your own setups. Kind of sucky. Makes me wish that Kawaks supported t-hat directions in the control setup!
In the intermission for Volume I, there are a few (rather bland) HF combos. Nothing special, and not even really worth the download if you ask me. :sad:
And no, I don’t plan on doing any new vids for CPS1 games. Not unless I find something crazy and new, which is extremely unlikely.
TZW’s original Guile exhibition (I think it was called “TZW’s Ultimate Guile”) was basically 500 variations of the same 3 combos. The combo vid that was on The Starting Over was done by Tosaka, as far as I know. The glitch vid (The ???) was done by TZW.
Actually, T.Akiba’s site has frame data for all the old school games, WW through ST.
Fluxcore, thanks alot for those findings. Do you have any idea if these settings can be used online? The good news is that there is pretty much an online standard with ver 0.64 so most people are using the same version. Also at some point the mame team are certain to address this properly. Seems so strange that its been an issue for such a high profile game for so long, esp as the very first CPS1 emu, Callus, had addressed it in 98.
NKI, yeah the Guile section I’m talking about is on the end of the glitch section, so am pretty sure its (at least part of) the TZW one. The grade of video looks pretty old, like something of its era. Was the origonal video ever ripped do you know? I saw it mentioned by alot of people in the US who had a VHS copy.
*EDIT, just watched this, I really like the Ken slow fireball air huricane kick combo. Prolly best ro reserve that as Coup de grâce I imagine
Thanks alot, great work on the frame data, I’ll link to this in the resources next update. :tup:
If there are any combovideo makers out there interested in doing a HF vid, or even starting to compile a list, that would be a great resorce. There are alot of combo’s especialy CPS1 chains not featured on any western vids. Only Guile, thnx to the Sean Guiley vid NKI reposted has been showcased. Remember anyone with a rapidfire jab or short can CPS1 chain, as well as specific stuff like vert ball stuff for Blanka, Rogs dash combos like the ones mentioned by Apoc earlier, Vega roll re-dizzies etc…
Oh yeah, my mistake. I forgot about that section. That is indeed TZW.
Not that I know of. Maybe becase no one ever got a copy that had quality that was good enough to rip. I know my copies are pretty much unwatchable at some points (you literally can’t tell what’s going on, because the quality is so bad).
I’d be down for it if there were any new material to use, but I don’t really think that XCOPYing old TZW combos to make a vid is worth the effort.
