Hm, interesting. I’d definitely have Blanka in the top 5, but top 3, I don’t know. I pretty much agree with the rest of that list, except I might put Boxer above Dhalsim.
But in any case I’ll certainly defer to Watson’s expertise.
^^^ I obviously don’t know HF as well as watson but IMO after playing thousands of matches online and off with sagat i would definitely not put sagat as #4 MAYBE 6 or 7 otherwise though that sounds like a very solid offline tierlist.
Sagat was still a dominant force back in the glory days of HF, the only reason that kept him from Being Top 2 was the tone down of his Tiger Shots.
Unlike his CE/Super/OG version which have the famous 11-37 frames, HF. Sagat had the 11-41 frame Tiger, which although slower, the most important part of it is that the recovery stayed exactly the same. He’s basically still like CE. Sagat with just slightly toned down Tigershots, which doesn’t contribute to him losing so much priority.
Blanka just had some seriously retarded shit, like Vertical Roll on block into throw garbage was some of the more stupid things that actually occurred in HF. I even remember Jeff, another Great OG SFII player say that HF. Blanka was Top 3 in another thread as well, so I’m confident it’s not just Watson’s opinion on this.
Ps: when I pmed Wats about this, he was quite vague about it to me for the tier listing, and when giving reasons why they where placed there, it was like…a single sentence, if barely, lolz. Still, it was great to hear his thoughts though.
I’m not doubting wats who obviously knows his shit better then all of us combined i’m jus saying that as a heavy sagat user myself online n off i find it hard to believe wats or any OG top player would put him anywhere better then #6 cuz i use champion sagat alot in AE and o.sagat in ST and i notice alot of difference other then just tigershot speed, most notably his tiger uppercut although doing more damage in HF then in AE or ST it just gets stuffed by almost everything. I know i said it alot before but i’m just re-emphasizing that something is fucked up when chuns jumping short as among other characters normals CLEANLY stuff his tiger uppercut in HF regardless of lag, in AE or ST sagats TU usually beatsout mostly everything done in the air so thats a notable descrepancy IMO otherwise though everything else seems solid and righton to me.
EDIT: I’m glad u agree how some of the shit blanka can do is stupidly powerful not to mention how he can stuff just about anything with his normals and has plenty of AA’s all of which are magnified by 659041294843 when lag is taken into acccount but even offline i would still put beastly blanka at #2 and guile #3 however i’m sure u n everyone else takes my opinion wit a grain of salt so it’s all good thx for the solid tierlist.
Orochi: I think you missed the sarcasm in my post. Obviously live rankings or online rankings I should say would be different then real rankings which you do agree too, so why talk about rankings on xbox live. Honda and Blanka both get destroyed by chun li, online and offline. Shotos own honda both online and offline. It is not hard dping honda’s headbutt, plus standing jabs stop that shit. If this was offline, i’d just be throwing fireballs across the screen. Dhalsim destroys honda with yoga fire, and low fierce all day.
If you get jump kick walk up bearhug happy online, i’ll just knockdown you down once, start zoning, or use live tactics aka walk up mash low short to stuff anything you do, then walk up throw or early jump short into repeated mash low shorts, into walk up throw or crossup…you can’t react to and beat jump shorts from blocking low shorts online…xbox live tactics FTW.
shoto vs blanka online is about 50/50 depends on whoever can adapt faster and whoever knows how to exploit lag better. If one match was 5 rounds out of 7, the shoto blanka matchup would probably be 70/30 in favor of shotos.
Even though I’ve lost to countless blankas online, the only good blanka is probably decoy on xbox live, since the game is basically dead, and I’ve never played him before. Blanka takes a lot of work against a decent shoto player offline.
All you need is some space, fireball, sweep, dp. And I guess i’ll just use a top player reference too since it apparently means something, I’ve talked to Jason Wilson before about this. 
Most people who say blanka are top tier, with exception of mike watson and jeff schaefer, are just getting pwned online by his shenanigans and claim he’s top imo.
In the end I know I’m being a hypocrite participating in theory fighter rankings too, but blanka is just not high imo. I agree with true sephiroth and what he said watson said about blanka having some easier matchups than sagat, particularly if he were talking about blanka’s matchups against the lower tiered characters, but I think sagat has a way better matchup against what most people would say top 2: ryu and guile.
I’d say tier in HF is
A+ ryu, guile
A sagat, ken
B+ blanka chun
I think sagat, ken, chun, ryu, and guile all have an easier matchup against each other than blanka, and chun has easier matchups against the top than gief imo.
I don’t think people have seen what HF chun can do, and no online doesn’t count at all. Maybe R/C since he plays with Norm.
Chun li and blanka are both better on head to head cabinets than side by side, because the opponent can’t hear you hitting electricity or lighting legs.
Wait, Orochizoolander knows how to pick O.Sagat?
I’m bored of making long posts for tonight lol so il jus say that while i agree shotos are sposta have an advantage against blanka and offline the matchup is clear…all that shit goes out the window when even a lil bit of lag comes into play as i’m sure u noticed since u have lost to countless blankas as i have. I agree blanka has alotta bullshit shenanigans n whatnot but he’s also a stable polished character offline IMO and whether it’s offline or on i still think blanka is in the top3 regardless and that sagat sucks enough to be put in midtier like #5.
EDIT: I have played alotta good chuns with good connections n low-lag so i know all the crazy traps n setups she has in HF and SBK in the air can get ridiculous sometimes. Altho decoy is hands down the best blanka i have seen my fair share of decent blanka players who legitimently beat me without use of lag tactics but rather capitalizing on his lockdown potential.
HELL NAW NIGGA I CAN’T EVEN DP U HATEFUL BASTARD:rofl:… …:sad:
Ok i saw this thread and i had to reply. Ive played HF offline back in the day and i play on Live with Chun as my main and i agree with evilj. Ive played ALOT of Blankas and Hondas back then. Honda cant do much about Lightning Kicks since it eats up everything he throws out. Heatbutt? Beats clean. Pokes? Beats clean. Even the HHS it beats clean. Throw in fireballs and beating him in the air with mk (since he has no choice but to jump) its a very difficult matchup for Honda.
GOOD Blanka players on the other hard would tear me up. But most Blanka players online are scrubby as hell. Anyways, offline Blanka is a bit more of a problem since he has a faster jump with makes him very dangerous so i play this match more cautiously. When knocked down, he has a hard time with meaty ticks. They (meaty ticks) are even more of a problem for him online since the lag makes it extremely hard to reverse. Most people online dont even use him properly. They just use vert ball ticks overs and overs, as well as tons of jump ins. That isnt hard to deal with. I do put the matchup in Chuns favor though. Slightly. But I dont know the matchups too well on HF so i could be wrong. Im not a HF player although i was playing SF since WW. I mainly play (and prefer) ST.
Now when i use shotos online, the problems start. The lag doesnt let me reversal jumpins/ticks like i do offline. All shoto scrubs online have this in common… Randomly repeated SRKs and on knockdown they do late jumpins that are for some weird reason hard to block. Lag maybe? I dunno. Not hitting easy reversals for the jumpins/ticks is a frustrating aspect for me online. But once i get the scrubs in the corner with shotos, its usually over since i stay half screen throwing fireballs and SRK’ing jumpins.
HF online is no way to be taken seriously. The lag is always there, even when the lag seems non-existant. You can feel it.
EDIT: I completely forgot this… So Blanka or Honda top? Nah. Well maybe Blanka but i agree with Ryu then Guile as top.
I want to know whywe are talking about Live Tier Lists as if Tier Lists built on Lag matter…I mean really no one takes these Online fights seriously enough to think an online tier list actually matters.
Cuz theory fighter is da shit son!:lol:
I don’t play chun but i have an easy time believing she has a much easier time vs blanka then shotos especially since a jumping blanka online is hard to reversal, hell even offline he still got a pretty damn high jump arc and has some sick AA options so hecan play rushdown and turtle…or u could do shortball fakeout into electricity/bite:sad:
Now though onlline and off i dont have as hard a time vs blanka cuz the scrubby ones jumpin way too much but honda on the other hand online is duch a struggle yet offline is a joke for my sagat cuz no lag means honda has no cover against sagats fb game.
My post pertains to offline but also applies to scrubby online players.
Comparing CE Sagat from AE is a poor conception, since honestly CE. Sagat in AE feels way more powerful then even his CE. Sagat arcade version, due to slightly better damage+better stun potential. Practically all of the CE versions from AE feel way stronger…like CE. Bison in AE can’t even do a full redizzy combo because he does far more damage then his CE arcade counterpart, or Guile getting guaranteed dizzies (Not re-dizzies of course) off of his jump in fp, c.mp, flashkick combo when in the CE arcade version, that was nowhere near as consistent.
Tiger Uppercut hasn’t changed, I don’t remember anything being modified about it, unless I’m mistaken (which I doubt that I’m wrong), however I am sure that Low Tigers where the only things changed for HF. Because if my memory serves me correctly, they specifically toned this part down, simply so that other characters like Ryu and Guile can compete more consistently in the fireball department.
My other problem is that your still playing/testing it online, it would be much better tested offline to be 100% accurate, which I am sure, nothing has been modified of the TigerUppercut, the only thing I guarantee is the Tigershot modification for Sagat.
I have a once then super hardcore brother who’s played Sagat since day #1 when CE came out, and even during HF, I saw no loss in priority on his Tiger Uppercut. The only times, I will ever, ever stuff a HF. Sagat’s TigerUppercut, is if I anticipate it with Ryu and jump kick early so that I can hit the Uppercut late and 2 in 1 into Hurricane kick.
However, you can do that with basically all other Sagats, so it doesn’t matter. Not to mention, the real top players at the time for HF where tearing shit up with HF. Sagat, just read Jeff’s statements about him beasting with HF. Sagat, and he wasn’t the only one doing this in HF.
Blanka is very strong in HF, but even then, I wouldn’t push him above Guile. Guile may not hold a strong iron fist like his CE counterpart, but he’s still every bit the wrecking machine that he is. His SB might be modified slightly, however it isn’t enough to drastically change his gameplay.
His normals still have the same priority as his CE counterpart, and he can still zone and peace the snot out of you into submission. Again, during HF’s glory days, Guile was still dominating, only Ryu faired slightly better then him.
Where does Balrog rate? I have problems with Chun sometimes with Balrog, is he supposed to do bad in this matchup? Also Vega is a pain in the balls and ultimately, Guile is hard to beat:(
I play HF n AE online and sometimes offline and the bottomline is that CE guile is much more of a threat in general then guile in HF cuz CE guile CAN redizzy even if inconsistantly while HF guile cannot not to mention HF guile has a noticable delay after his SB so if he tries to jump at me or use his deadly backfist i can still block the SB n counter in time wheras in AE even with CE sagat IMMEDIATELY after that SB CE guile can get me into lockdown n it’s noticably harder to block the SB AND also still have time to counter any followup attack. Overall guile in HF just doesn’t scare me as much as his CE counterpart in AE i have a MUCH easier time dealing with him in HF then in AE. When HF first cameout on the xbla i had a mindset that blanka was toptier n cheap n shit then i realized it was just the lag making him better then he really is but then when i started playing HF offline a month or two after it cameout (against some solid blanka players though certainly not as good as real decoy) i noticed blanka is still a very solid guy he has good biterange, plenty of reliable AA’s, n what really make him a big threat IMO is his fakeout tactics like his fakeballs. And i dunno exactly what it is about sagat in HF but his tiger uppercut be it online or off gets flatout STUFFED CLEAN by chuns jumping short everytime unless i do it super early in which case i would have to be daigo n psyhic dp on reaction every time like him :lol: When i use CE sagats TU i know that whether i do it late or early the chances are in my favor that it will cleanly beat or at least trade with whatever jumping attack they come at me with but in HF more often then not my TU gets beaten most of the time, sometimes trades, n rarely beatout the opposing attack and i don’t chalk that up to lag 100% cuz even offline this is still somewhat true and i agree 100% about the tigershot being toned down cuz it is VERY noticable, even KOOP n a few others agree that something about sagats TU in HF is whack i dunno if its the priority (i know thats being vague) or the hitbox or what but it jus doesnt go through as much shit as CE sagats TU.
IMO this is what the offline tierlist should be:
1ryu
2blanka
3guile
4ken
5chun
6sagat
7geif
8honda
9boxer
10sim
11claw
12dic
IMO this is all accurate except for ken n chun which i believe is the most debtable cuz both characters have alot going for them and i put blanka only slightly higher then guile cuz narcissus caesar always shows me how much of a beast guile truely is.
A good connection only improves the speed in HF. The input delay stays the same no matter what–which is a good thing.
EDIT:
Sagat’s Tiger Uppercut doesn’t knockdown in the original CE, yet it does so in AE.
Both CE and HF Guile use the same dizzy system is AE.
I’m no expert but i know XBL HF isint even based on the arcade version. its a port of the psx version just like the capcom classics collection vol 1.
that being said the only difference i know of is lack of CPS1 chains…this is a big deal to me because i love CPS1 chains with all my heart.
but the point is they are different. Anyone have alittle more indepth information on the differences perhaps? I’ve never played any HF aside from arcade and snes
The CPS1 chains are still in Hyper Fighting. I do them all the time.
In my post i indicated i was talking bout HF guile from HF not HF guile in AE.
N yeah cps1 chains r still in…thats what makes guile in the top3.
People on xbl tell me that the HF on xbla is different then the one for the arcade but i never played it in the arcade so i wouldn’t know.
You misread my post, what I meant was that there was no modification from CE Tiger Uppercut to HF Tiger Uppercut in Sagat. Nothing to do with the AE versions.
Also, Orochi, you keep on talking about CE vs HF this, and Orochi is correct, both CE/HF Guiles have the same dizzy potential. However, those are AE characters, the CE characters within AE seem more powerful and dizzy far more consistently then their arcade counterparts.
This ain’t AE man, so quit talking about CE/HF Sagats of AE, they are different because of many things, and also speed is a factor, because none of those matches CE or HF speed correctly.
Using AE as a comparison for CE/HF Sagat is not good, and let me put it down really simply about Guile. The only difference between CE and HF Guile is that CE Guile has a better SonicBoom at 10-20, while HF has it at 10-25. Yes, a change, however Guile still recovers faster then anyone else in the projectile department, and the second best in HF is Ryu and he’s still leagues away, so HF. Guile can still follow it for powerful positioning games/mixups/zoning.
HF. Blanka maybe top 3, but not #2, and Sagat should not be that low at #6, all of these years playing HF, I’ve never heard of his Tiger Uppercut being stated as being nerfed in that version so that it has less priority.
Sorry to say but, I’d rather go with the top 5 character listing with help from people who competed when HF had it’s most and best competition, their lvl of play would’ve been infinitely higher then what is around today.
Also, I do not agree with a TierListing that involves knowledge from online gameplay, my stock hangs on the arcade HF version only, not AE or HF online whatever. Nothing against XBL players either though.
^^U misread or misunderstood my post cuz i was comparing CE sagat n guile to their HF counterparts IN THE GAME HF FOR XBLA NOT THE HF IN AE.
Guile is a beast yes but better then ryu in HF? it’s universally known that ryu IS the best character other then you i dunno anyone in this thread, on xbl, or IRL that will agree bout guile being the best character in the game.
i put blanka as #2 but thats just IMO and a very slight one at that i could easily replace that with guile but ryu is a constant he will always be #1.
#1ryu, his srk and knocking down hurricanes ain’t no joke
#2 guile or blanka at this point i could go either way cuz guiles got the CPS1 chains but blanka has alot of tools to play well offensively n defensively (real decoy the best blanka on HF can expand on this)
#3ken/chun/sagat could go either way and this moreso then anyone else is debatable cuz ken is almost as much a beast as ryu, chun has solid traps n setups not to mention her fireball STAYS ONSCREEN, and sagat while having a toned down fb he still does hella damage
#4geif…lariat aint no joke and i heard his SPD ticks are pretty serious chemistren82 can shed more light on this as he’s one of the better geif users in HF
#5honda gets owned by fireballs (except for sim’s as sweetJ pointed out) but he’s still a solid turtle n handslaps do good block damage
#6boxer he’s got the tick and dash mixups overall not the beast like he is in ST but definitely not bad
#7sim…i dunno theres jus something about him that makes him not so great sweetJ can comment on this since he’s a solid sim user in HF
#8claw/dictator these 2 guys seem to have been nerfed more then anyone else in HF not to say they are weak or anything but IMO they lost alot of their stability and shenanigans in this game for example claw doesn’t have flashkick and his poking game isn’t nearly as strong in this game as it is in ST or AE, and dic simply doesn’t have the combos that made him a significant threat in ST, remember i’m not saying these 2 guys are bad cuz HF is the most balanced fighter out there i’m jus saying out of all the characters they are the worst…goodthing in this game everyone has a more or less equal chance against everyone else as KOOP will agree since he’s 1 of the best dic n claw users in HF.
^^This seems to be the general consensus of everyone in this thread including me.
EDIT: what i like most about this game is that it stresses personal skill and mastery of ur own character over the tiers or counter matchups n all that bullshit cuz if u lose in HF it’s because the other guy played better then you not cuz he picked a counter character (this entire post is talking about OFFLINE play)