Out of curiosity…
…has anyone ever brought forth a valid argument against Ryu being #1 in this game?
I don’t think anyone does argue that. But to say what others have already stated, this is one of the most balanced SF games; Ryu is top, but not by too far a margin that everyone can’t compete with him.
And to further reiterate what others have said; because this is an old school game with OG peeps playing it, tiers matter little. I may be overstepping my bounds, but I am almost positive OGs keep Theory Fighter to a minimum. So yes, Dasrik, some one could definitely argue that Ryu ISN’T top, but at the same time I think it is insignificant to argue such a point.
Just my two cents, I am by far the scrubbiest of the OG SF2 players, so take what I said for what it is worth.
I’ve always thought Guile and Dhalsim were the top characters in this game.
And isn’t Ryu about mid tier (upper mid at best)?
Dhalsim is not top. His damage and priority are toned down way too much. I remember my brother and I would play Dhalsim vs. Honda a lot and even though it seems like Honda should lose, I would often win in a 9:1 ratio based on damage alone.
Anyone else here think Ryu and Ken’s air hurricane kick was an unneeded addition in HF? That alone makes the shotos to good. I’d argue Ryu is top, but I am sure some Dhalsim player could disprove me. I bet Mokura would have a good answer to that question.
Btw, I know the differences between Jap CE and US CE, but are there substantial gameplay differences in HF? This is of course neglecting cosmetic title screen and boss names swap.
I remember there was an alteration in the English version that was kind of crucial, but it’s slipping my mind at the moment.
NKI would know.
Yeah, sadly Dhalsim isn’t very good in HF. I know. I play with him a lot, just because I like him. But like you say, his priority is pretty bad in HF. Many moves that would hit clean as day in ST, trade or lose entirely in HF. And yeah, his damage is pathetic. In addition, in ST he has a great super, and the ability to control his limbs and his extra drill angles help him a lot. There’s a reason he’s top tier in ST. But in HF, he just isn’t that good.
That’s certainly not to say that you can’t use him in HF. You can. It just takes a lot of work. And some matchups in HF are really tough. A good Blanka or Vega, for instance, can just work you hard if you slip up at all :looney:
I think this is the best post by far regarding this topic. The advantage margins are slim. You would have to play almost perfect to realize any advantages or disadvantages if any.
Over my extensive years of playing this game, the players that I see give Ryu the most trouble are Sagat, Guile, Balrog, Dhalsim, and recently Chun Li. I believe Ken gives him trouble as well because I play Ken extensively and I can whomp on high level Ryu players. But, I have never found any other player other than myself who can beat Ryu using Ken consistently. When you are a master Ken player, the advantages will be clear. If you are just simply “good” … good is not good enough. A “good” Ryu player will have an easy time against a “good” Ken.
The problem with Ryu is that alot of people who play against him are prepared against him because so many people use him. Street Fighter is 25% strategy, 25% reflex, 25% instinct, 25% execution. As long as someone has a firm grasp on these 4 tools, they can go into the game putting Ryu on the defensive. I am a firm believer that the person who can put offensive pressure on his opponent will have a higher winning rate. Any of the characters I mentioned can apply pressure, therefore they have a good chance of winning. Because of this, I believe it’s hard to make an argument that Ryu is #1 in the game. The game is too balanced to even make any argument significant.
If there was a high level Hyper Tournament going on today, I would not be surprised if Sagat, Guile, Ken, and Chun Li made it out on top. I believe Dhalsim has potential as well, but not many people are patient enough to study him.
Don’t get me wrong. I play Ryu extensively as well and I believe I’m very good with him. But it is because I play him so extensively, I can pinpoint his weaknesses. Ryu is only as good as the person who plays him.
So what exactly are Ryu’s weaknesses that Ken can exploit so well?
More people need to play this at Godweapon.
This >>>>> Champion Edition
I want to know the samething as well 
Ryu is a bad matchup for Sagat, Guile, Boxer, and Dhalsim in Hyper Fighting. Guile and Dhalsim especially.
Dhalsim is really poor in Hyper Fighting. About the only thing he has going for him is his throw range/priority, makes it really easy to tick throw. But even his throws/grabs do weak damage.
Oh, and Ryu > Ken.
I was about to argue that it wasn’t, but checking T.Akiba’s site, HF guile’s SB recovery is 25 frames to 20 for all other versions. Five frames is pretty significant. And, as has been mentioned earlier, his charge time for the Somersault Kick is longer. Still, it’s Guile. I don’t think any SF2 version of him is less than upper mid tier…
Too slow on the ground. If Ken is moving towards you, he can out kick you with variations of forward and roundhouses because he can move forward faster and dodge faster. On the ground, this puts Ryu at a disadvantage. Similar to how Chung li would out kick you because she moves in and out faster, only Ken is slower, but as long as he moves faster than Ryu he has an advantage. But that doesn’t mean Ryu can’t hang, it just means he has a disadvantage in that area. Ken can also mix up close range battles with jab shoryukens which have a surprisingly long range along with quick throws.
Ryu only has a few option to keep Ken away. Fierce fireball and short spin kick. Keep in mind these are two moves that make Ryu vulnerable as well. Short spin kick and be uppercutted or down fierced. Or if Ryu lands from the spin kick, you can simply jump away from it because Ryu is at an advantage to do damage when he lands really close after a short spin kick.
Ryu is just setting himself up to get comboed and lose the game when he throws fierce fireballs. But good Ryu players pick their moments. However, while they’re deciding, Ken is closing in. Ken can uppercut through fireballs to gain closer positioning or he can jump straight up , dodge a fireball, and regain position because Ryu can’t throw another fireball until the first one is out of the screen. Ken can also do a quick low jump spin kick, land in front of ryu and do whatever he wants.
The point is, Ryu heavily relies on his fireball to keep Ken away. Ken has all the tools he needs to make Ryu pay for it. Even if Ken mistakenly jumps at Ryu, knowing Ryu will punish him with a shoryuken, Ken can easily do a spin kick in mid air and the shoryuken will barely do any damage. If Ryu gets caught, he’s pretty much dead. Jump Fierce, short, uppercut will dizzy him from mid range distance followed by the jump fierce, fierce, uppercut leaving Ryu will little to no blood. Do the math.
Ken is an opportunist. He can destroy at any moment. He can take all your blood away with one short. Short, fierce, uppercut = dizzy… Jump fierce, fierce, uppercut = dead.
People who think Ryu is superior to Ken usually lose to me because they underestimate the tools that Ken has. I can play both Ryu and Ken at a high level. Mike Watson has seen me play and played against so Im sure he can vouch for that.
Ken > Ryu anyday.
I’ve never noticed that; I gotta check it out for myself.
Thanks for the info.
I’m trying to develop my gameplay more with Zangief.
What are you opinions of his advantages/disadvantages against Ryu and Ken?
Ken moves only 3 to 4 frames faster than Ryu, but it makes all the difference. It’s like saying Ryu’s fireball speed is a lil faster than Ken’s, but it still makes all the difference.
I believe that if you play Zangief against a shoto character and they’re not willing to challenge you on ground kicking battle, you will have an easy time. Just keep moving forward.
Zangief’s anti-air is Stand up Jab and cr. jab.
Your cr.roundhouse will get you in the door, if they’re not willing to challenge it. Spinning punch with kick will help you dodge fireballs. Spinning punch with punch will help you move through fireballs to get a close hit. From there, it’s up to you to execute.
Standing short into a 360 works great. Mix it up a bit because they’re gonna try to shoryuken out of it. Once the first 360 is executed, don’t get greedy…unless you have them cornered of course. Position yourself for the next series of attacks.
The important thing to practice is to learn to 360 using both directions with the joystick. You want to be able to walk backwards and do a 360 going the fireball direction (assuming you’re on the 1p side) and you also want to be able to walk forward and do a 360 going the hurricane kick direction. This will also help you position yourself after the 360 is done because Zangief can bounce forward or backwards after the 360 is completed depending on what direction you used.
Composure and execution is key to Zangief. They’re battling to keep you away and you’re battling to close in. Your ability to execute will be put to the test, not his.
Thanks for the advice.
What days / times can you get some game time in? There’s a thread in the Pac South for Hyper Fighting if you’re available.
I can get game time anytime after work. I own a business in Ontario and I usually leave at 6:00 pm. I would probably get to Cal Poly around 6:20. I live in San Gabriel so I ca go west bound on the 10 going home.
What time is good for you and the crew? We can discuss further on the thread. I believe I’ve already been posting in that particular thread 
I can see a few theoretical advantages Ken has over Ryu in that fight:
- A clean jump-in hit = death or at least close to death
- His hurricane kick doesn’t knock down. This doesn’t sound like an advantage, but if it connects fully it forces mix-up much sooner than Ryu’s HK.
- Ken’s fireballs move slower. This has already been talked about fully elsewhere.
That being said, I still think Ryu has more of an advantage because he is free to do more. His fierce fireball can be used as a near-unbeatable poke in mid-range footsie games (my, how I hate that word) and short HK is a relatively safe close-range mixup that is dangerous to mess around with. It’s not free by any means, but all other things being equal, I think Ryu would win.
Not my Ryu, though, he sucks.
Ken, I responded to your post in the pac south thread.
Dasrik, are you in the L.A area?