The SF2 Hyper Fighting Thread

[gig4ls]

Some scans of the old hyper fighting guide…
http://luna.typepad.com/weblog/2006/08/street_fighter_.html

There actually were more pages and characters to this, and they did have a few select combos, as I recall. I know this since this was actually the guide that I saw the Bison corner trap in!

[elvis_a_presley]

Some scans of the old hyper fighting guide…
http://luna.typepad.com/weblog/2006/08/street_fighter_.html

Ha! I’ve still got those mags in my gamesroom.

Time to get scanning, I think.

[SaveFighting]

There actually were more pages and characters to this, and they did have a few select combos, as I recall. I know this since this was actually the guide that I saw the Bison corner trap in!

yeah I know there are more pages but i knew crayfish had been looking for it to see how it was and when i saw the page i knew he would want a link to it.

lets hope elvis comes through with all the other pages

[System_1]

oh man that shit was hilarious:rofl:

lol that WAS funny

[SaveFighting]

I’ve concluded that a round (going by when the clock starts & finishes) is around:

57 SECONDS

In both Mame and WinKawaks under normal settings a round will last approx

46.5 SECONDS

clearly a significant speed inrease, and ‘very’ noticable when played side by side.

just tested the xbox 360 version and it takes 52 seconds from start to end. :wasted:

[Obot64.com]

What a fantastic find. Does anyone else know if there were more parts to this, as there is only Ken & Chun covered.
Interesting also is the emphasis on matchups, whereas the GamePro HF book (unfortunately) concentrates almost solely on combos, with only a hadfull of specific matchups covered in a seperate section at the end of the book.

Crayfish.

I think I have this whole guide… but mabey it was just the one for regular sf2???

I could be willing to mutilate it by cutting the spine off of it and taking it to kinkos to have it professionally turned into a pdf file… but I wonder how much that cost? Is it be worth it?

[basic]

Just press down on the spine and scan it and save the jpgs as a rar/cbr.

[Crayfish]

I agree with basic, if you do decide to scan it, its prolly best just to flatten it and make into .jpegs. Thats how I did all the scans I’ve done so far, and jpegs are much friendlier to look at in ACDSee and edit in Photoshop than PDF files. Plus you havn’t ruined your book then too. I usually use other heavy books to hold things down flat when scanning. Which guide is it you have btw? The HF one I scanned the Tomo interview from on the first post?

Has anyone been over to the Xbox SF2 HF forums? Combined with Watson’s recent HF tourney win has really been a real timewarp. Its like being back in 91-92, all the kids playing the game for the firt time, complaining abt Honda’s ‘unstopable’ HHS, how incredibly hard the CPU is, newb strats and tier lists. Its kinda charmng, you could prolly find almost the exact same posts in the earliest archives of .alt games sf2:
http://forums.xbox.com/474/ShowForum.aspx

Check out this video review I found…
[media=youtube]sUgON861ZXA[/media]
it is so funny on so many levels. Man I :lovin: SF2HF.

Something else that just set me on the nostalga trip was this, did anyone else notice that guy called Ken’s s.HPxxHP Dragon a ‘knuckle duster’? I mentioned this topic before on the Tomo thread, abt different scenes all over the world creating thier own slang for moves and tactics:
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3142091&postcount=220

So cool, I’d love to hear any you guys remember from your respective scenes…
Actually does anyone know the source of todays accepted notation? I guess its mainly from the Westcoast Golfland scene, exported around the world via the GamePro guides. Maybe some of the terms even originate from SRK posters like Watson?
Crayfish.

[evilj]

crayfish do you play hf on live? I could use some guile vs ryu and vice versa training/advice. I usually beat the average shoto on live with guile, even the decent ones. I ran into dream theater (dreamtr) though and he destroyed my guile with ryu, and methodically took out my ryu with guile. I zone with guile a lot but I also try to predict fireballs to jump rh, I notice the old school guys hardly jump with guile, even if the other guy is throwing a lot fireballs, but they still play very offensive, inching their way in with guile, i’ve always thought of guile as more of a defensive turtler/spacer.

I did learn a few things playing though, some of which most people would already know.

For openers,

-forward hurricane should beat any sonic boom attempts. smarter guiles probably won’t attempt a boom as opener if they want to play safe.

-hurricanes can be beaten by c.fierce, or flash kick if timed right, so smarter/safer shotos won’t attempt this if they don’t want to play risky.

leading me to what happened in my first ryu vs guile match against him.

I tried a fireball as an opener for round 1 knowing the above two situations, he stuffed me with low forward right away, I didn’t realize it had that range, but i guess the fireball animation made my hitbox bigger or more vulnerable.

Next round, # 2, I adapted (or I guessed correctly he would attempt low forward again), so i took a step forward and sweeped with c.rh, this punished guile’s low forward…

end ramble. HF is the best version of sf.

[Khiempossible]

Guile vs. Ryu

Ryu has a clear advantage in this matchup. Probably 6-4 in Ryu’s favour.

Guile is at a disadvantage because his setups with sonic boom aren’t as effective against Ryu. Guile is no match for Ryu in an all-out firefight and he also can’t pressure Ryu with the SB effectively (Ryu’s hurricane kick).

Things that Guile can do at a distance are to draw Ryu into a fireball fight, hopefully getting him to start trying to overwhelm you with fireballs. What Guile is looking for is a careless FB that he can jump over for a RH kick while Ryu is in his fireball recovery.

If Guile has the lead, try to hang on to it and force Ryu to jump in. Your AAs here are low fierce, stand RH, trip guard low fwd, and low strong (if you anticipate a Ryu jump RH). Low strong will let Guile duck under the jump RH and u can throw them when they land.

If you have to get in close you should always try to stay just outside the range of Ryu’s low RH. When you’re fighting in close, you have to mixup your timing and patterns so it’s harder for Ryu to react to your setups.

If Ryu ever throws a FB to nullify your boom in close, you can backhand him for free damage. Another good trick is if Ryu blocks your low forward, try backhand instead of sonic boom. If Ryu tried to FB to counter after blocking low fwd he’ll eat the backhand. Mixup the timing of your attacks not only to keep Ryu guessing, but also to give you time to setup your attacks with sonic boom.

Never whiff low forward when playing footgames against Ryu. Good Ryus will sweep it on reaction and knock you down.

I actually recommend throwing booms and baiting the hurricane kick. If you know your spacing you can crouching fierce the kicks.

Ryu has a hard time fighting Guile in CE/HF imo. Hurricane kicks only work so often against a good guile and you would have to take a leap of faith when you do those anti-boom hurricanes. When Guile starts to throw booms it’s really hard to turn the table over, since if you jump at him, he can hit you in multiple ways, jump straight up and you eat a guaranteed low forward as you land or try to do a air hurricane kick on the way down but Guile recovers safely after the low forward attemp at landing. Jumping backwards ont in Ryu favor either. Blocking the boom is the best option here and I think the best strat for Ryu against Guile is to get a knock down somehow and then doing bunch of safe jump in -> walk up low short XX short hurricane/dp/throw mixups.

Callmeanewb: Yes, throwing booms and baiting the HK is a big part of it. Guile must be tricky tho. He has to mix up his follow-ups well (boom walk-in throw, boom, low fwd, boom, wait, low fierce HK etc). Not only can Ryu HK over careless sonic booms, but if he knows you’re going to sit there and bait his HK out, he can simply do fierce FB to start pushing you out again, because the range where he can hit you for free with hurricane is also the range where you can’t jump up over his fierce FB on reaction.

isn’t baiting the fireball part of it too? you sonic boom wait if he HKs you crouching fierce, if he fireball cancels you backfist, if he jumps you anti air, if he does nothing you throw another one?

In CE imo Ryu vs Guile is more of a 5/5 battle, but in Hyper where Ryu has a better fireball, and a more priority hurricane kick, I would agree with dogberry that Ryu now has an advantage. Guile has a tough time getting in on Ryu when it comes to a well played fireball game, and the hurricane kick is very effective against Guile, because within the range of where Guile can shoot his sonicboom and backfist, he’s prone to eating a hurricane kick, and even Guile can’t recover in time before he gets hit. Imo, even trying to shoot a sonicboom slightly outside of sweep range is dangerous because Ryu can always stuff it with a hurricane kick, and the sure way of the hurricane not stuffing Guile is if, Ryu does the hurricane kick too late, allowing Guile to recover in time. This can add for some guessing games in Ryu’s favor, imo, jumping in on your opponent is usually never a good idea, especially if they know how to space very well(For both Ryu and Guile, not just either one). Most Guile’s I play rarely jump forward, but they walk towards me while jumping straight up to avoid fb’s then they will try to stuff me in close if I try to shoot a fb with a c.mk if I’m within range.

This match I feel is within Ryu’s favor, because Guile has to work more harder, while the Ryu if they know how to space well with his fb will be dishing out a relentless amount of chip damage, because Guile’s sb game isn’t quite as effective up against Ryu when compared to the other characters, the match imo will come down to who spaces better then the other, but Ryu has the advantage because he can beat Guile out in the fb department, and also has an answer to stuffing his sonicboom’s.

> but in Hyper where Ryu has a better fireball, and a more priority hurricane kick,

I thought Ryu was exactly the same in HF as in CE. Just that, with HF’s higher speed, it’s now a lot harder to react when Ryu throws Fbs in your face.

And yeah, Ryu has the advantage in this fight. Guile simply cant keep up with a non-stop FB barrage. Even if Guile never gets hit, he loses to chip damage because he just can’t advance without blocking something, and Ryu never has to let himself get hit by anything.

A more interesting fight IMO is Ken vs. Guile. I say that fight is 5-5. Ken has one weapon in that fight that Ryu doesn’t: Ken’s j.HP will stuff everyone of Guile’s anti-air normals save perhaps for Guile’s c.s.MP (which he should never be able to land cause Ken should never jump from that range). Aside from that, spacing Ken + a ton load of Fbs is just enough to keep Guile at bay. He doesn’t have as “easy” a time keeping Guile out as Ryu does, but he can do it.

I’m a sucker for punishment. I only play Bison in HF.

Even walk forward backfist?

It depends by what you mean, are you signifying using a sonic boom and then walking forward into backfist, or just simply walking forward and backfisting? If Guile tried to just walk forward and backfist, the hurricane kick will beat out Guile’s backfist’s almost all the time(invincible frame start up and priority), the worse would be a trade off, which Ryu would do more damage then recieving damage anyhow.

The only way I can really see the backfist connecting is if Ryu used a hadouken within close range to counter the sonicboom, this would allow Guile to backfist Ryu before he can recover.

A bad matchup if I recall in Hyper was Ryu vs E. Honda (memory is alittle hazy, I haven’t played a really good E. Honda since like…95 lol) E. Honda’s headbutt’s are shutdown almost all the time by Ryu because of fb’s. All you needed to do was have good spacing with your hadouken game, c.fk stuff’s many of his jump in’s if he tries to jump over your fireballs. If he’s close, hurricane kick can get you to safety, E. Honda’s only chance would be to get in close on a Ryu, which was difficult to do.

Another bad match up, and this one is against Ryu imo, is going up against Balrog in Hyper. I swear, the damn charge turn punch with it’s invincibility, it made trying to space with fireballs almost impossible to do at times because Balrog would just fly right through your hadouken and smack you in the face, and he could walk forward while charging this up, which is why it was a very powerful tool up against Hyper Ryu, I would have to resort to other means like baiting Balrog into a turnpunch where I can stuff it with a lp shoryuken. I found this to be one of my most difficult matches in Hyper.

That would be it.

You sonic boom:

if Ryu HKs you crouching fierce
if Ryu cancels with fb you backfist
if Ryu jumps forward you anti air
if Ryu blocks (best option) you get spaced out and keep throwing SBs and FBs at each other til you get bored and one of you makes a mistake.

Yeah the match gets really interesting here, Guile has an option for every situation if he can get the initiative behind a Boom. Just some other specialised offensive options not mentioned yet, if Ryu blocks the Boom:

1.) Walk in behind it and throw

2.) Walk in behind it, when Ryu blocks follow it with a s.LK, then take half a step back and press HK. Ryu will generaly try to sweep you, and you will cleanly counter with the upsidedown kick.

3.) Follow behind the Boom and jump at Ryu. Ryu will generaly block high as he knows you can air attack simutaneously. Dont throw an air attack, land and go straight into c.HK sweep.

*then you have the alternate options for each:

1a.) Walk in behind the boom, then quickly crouch and hit c.HK sweep.

2a.) Walk in behind it, when Ryu blocks follow it with a s.LK straight into a throw.

3a.) Follow behind the Boom and jump at Ryu, throw a simutaneous air attack (generaly MK) that will hit Ryu’s low block.

3b.) Follow behind the Boom then when you get near, jump straight up. At the height of the jump hit HP. If Ryu tries to HK you will beat him clean.

So many options for Guile when he has the initative (which, unlike say Sagat against Ryu, is as much psychological as it is timing and positional advantage and thats what makes this match so good), the hard thing for Guile, is to engineer the initiative against Ryu’s FB game.

Crayfish.

honestly, at high level, this match should be 5:5 at worst. But like most things, it’s largely skill dependent and a good ryu vs. a good guile can look like ryu has the upper hand.

I forgot to mention Ryu can go for the uppercut through the sonic boom. In which case Guile still gets his walk forward mixup options.

I can’t recall but doesn’t guile have a move forward option (b+MK or b+LK aka knee) that keeps his charge? The only problem with this option is that if Ryu is good he can throw a fireball forcing Guile to block, or gain the fireball initiative again.

The biggest thing for guile in this match is learning to compete in the FB wars. Guile players need to learn the buffer technique for sonic booms (hold b f b +P allowing Guile to throw booms based on recovery instead of charge timing).

oh and props on the big trouble in little china shot. I love that movie.

Yeah if you stuff the cyclone kick a couple of times and start to pressue Ryu a little, you generaly see more and more of this. Depending on cicumstances, you can either punnish with c.MK, throw or backfist etc…, but the best Guiles can Backdrop whiffed LP Dragons, such an awsome tactic. You can even Backdrop the cyclone kick but I think thats too risky to bother using.

Yeah its the b+MK (b+LK in ST), you dont really get to use this much against Ryu coss of the threat of the Cyclone kick, but against Sagat its a main part of your game coss you are safer behnd the Boom and its the way you use to punish nulified close low Tigers while holding/gainng ground and mantaining charge. Great move.

Yes deffo, here is Apoc’s guide to ‘Delayed Charging’:

"Charge before you release the special. This is a relatively unknown charging technique. Here is a new motion for your charge attack: Charge back(or back and down), tap the stick forward, then tap it back, then press the button that corresponds with the special you are using and the speed you want it to be. This basically lets you charge ahead of time and lets you keep charges even when your opponent thinks that you cant be charged. Ever do a sonic boom and then flashkicked your opponent when he jumped over? This is how you do it. You cant do another sonic boom, sadly, because only one can be on the screen at once. But the whole concept is simple: precharge. This is crucial in using your specials to maintain position, range, pressure and even a mindgame here and there as well as making for some really cool combos involving 2 or 3 charge specials or incredibly difficult to time supercancels. This also helps balance out your overall game with the command character because you have your moves almost at will, when you need them. Couple this with the real charge motion and youll see how fast you can fire off to charge specials in a row or connect charge specials into charge supers in combos. In short, this helps to free you up in regards to special usage"
Yes abso classic:)
June and early July is tricky for me m8, just movng atm + lots of other stuff. I’ll deffo get bak to you on this soon when I know where I am a little better. And I gotta finaly scan that SSF bok ;). Keep safe m8.

Crayfish.

This is why I feel that Guile will never have a 5-5 battle up against Ryu in Hyper. A 6-4 is not even that big of an advantage at all if you really think about it, the Guile player still has to work more harder than the Ryu player when these two are confronting one another, at high lvls, the matches do become more close, but that’s how it is with almost all fighting games at the highest lvls of play. However it still doesn’t change that Ryu has a slight advantage over Guile in Hyper, Guile has to be cautious with his sb game, Guile must get in close to deal damage otherwise he’ll slowly get chipped damage, this plays within Ryu’s favor, I’m not saying Ryu owns Guile, but it does lean slightly towards in Ryu’s favor.

Oh yes Ultima, lol, I completely forgot about the Blanka vs. Vega match, lol, the good times.

Already covered. And I had to try the multiquote option.

[Murt]

Do you guys think that XBL HF players will eventually get better as a whole? EVERYBODY I’ve played in the past hour was a shoto scrub who used jump in roundhouse - rh sweep excessively.

[System_1]

I know a lot of people that complain that the Xbox 360 SF is way too hard single player. Do you guys thrash the heck out of the CPU in this version?

[Ki_Shima]

I know a lot of people that complain that the Xbox 360 SF is way too hard single player. Do you guys thrash the heck out of the CPU in this version?

the 360 version is probably the same as the xbox’s AE version, i think if it is its like expert players playing their best tactics for most situations all the time.

its gud that that system is in the game, it means arcade mode becomes training mode

but who gives a toss about fighting A.I its all about VS

[evilj]

Do you guys think that XBL HF players will eventually get better as a whole? EVERYBODY I’ve played in the past hour was a shoto scrub who used jump in roundhouse - rh sweep excessively.

yes, already starting maybe on friday or saturday, i’ve gone into multiple quarter match rooms where people were decent. I think a lot of the scrubs stopped playing or got better.

I know everything in that ryu vs guile post, I read it already and already know it and I actually play my guile according to those posts. I’m still losing though because I’m seeing guile’s do a lot of different stuff.

Old school guiles aren’t looking to jump rh the fireball, and they aren’t really using the low sonic boom to throw or mixup their close options. I’m gonna have to just play the matchup against dream again because I can’t remember exactly what he was doing but basically he was just making me block a lot and stuffing me.

[Crusader]

Anyone got any tips against fighting against the AI? I’m trying to get the Perfect World Champion achievement (the one where you beat the game without losing a round) but I can’t find a good AI pattern for Bison. He just seems to random and I end up losing a round to him. What’s a good cheap trick to beat him with?

[System_1]

E.Honda is pretty easy to get double perfects on AI Bison with. Just turtle up in the corner and jab headbutt/low strong crap

[BEWD]

Hey guys, dont’ mean to intrude or anything, haven’t tried playing this seriously(only played it on snes and fool around with it on zsnes occasionally)Just one question, I was looking through the thread for Sagat strats, and I see no mention of strats with Tiger Knee, is it a useless move?

[Crusader]

Just turtle up in the corner and jab headbutt/low strong crap

Explain plz. I’m retarded.

[System_1]

Head to the corner from the start of the match and crouch low. Jab headbutt jump-ins, stomp kicks and psycho crushers (CPU AI has a tell for it, you have to look for it though), and low strong when he’s close to keep him from walking up and throwing you. He also likes eating random fierce torpedoes. Good luck.

P.S. Jab headbutt has invincibility at the beginning which makes it good AA, if you don’t know that.

[Crusader]

Head to the corner from the start of the match and crouch low. Jab headbutt jump-ins, stomp kicks and psycho crushers (CPU AI has a tell for it, you have to look for it though), and low strong when he’s close to keep him from walking up and throwing you. He also likes eating random fierce torpedoes. Good luck.

P.S. Jab headbutt has invincibility at the beginning which makes it good AA, if you don’t know that.

Thanks man.