Something just seems really “wonky” about SBK and it’s invulnerability frames. I’m sure it’ll get touched up in the next iteration. I mean, you have to spend meter on it… It shouldn’t be so… Unreliable.
No QQ, but I fully agree.
They need to fix either EX SBK or her ultra juggle problems.
If they fix both, I will cry with joy.
But if I had to choose, I’d rather EX SBK do the job it was intended to do. If it costs meter, it should be as good as Ryu’s fierce dp (which is free).
I’m pretty sure they didn’t intend for it to pretty much suck… Really, they NEED to fix both. If nothing else, it would make Chun more solid while not really changing her game at all.
Dime, maybe it is the online play or the fact that I am not a very defensive minded Chun player, never have been nor have I had a good AA special like EX SBK other than her Kikosho in A2. It’s just that “go to” I know I have if I need to incorporate a quick defensive move. Trust me my game doesn’t revolve around it, as I still try to make opponents land on her Kikkokens like it was ST/HDR. But if my choice it to look for that good Super opening or keep the meter for defense, I feel safer with keeping the meter and looking for an ultra opening instead. Just me and my play style though, I bet I player her pretty differently than others (not better, differently).
Well yeah pretty much like hadoken or any projectile, EX SBK has very little throw/attack proof start up frames.
I don’t know why they designed it this way, I also am not a fan of the inconsistency in the direction your opponent gets launched making predicting your charge for an Ultra difficult.
Oh and this is just me but … I think Chun needs a more reliable armor breaking move. Unlike, Rog, Honda, Ryu & Shoto incorporated (Even Dan) you cannot break armor on reaction with Chun … I guess it’s what we give up for being the quickest character in the game.
I was going to suggest Hazanshu should break armor but realized how broken that would be.
Anyway, with regards to her new Ultra … I don’t know what to suggest but I know I want an Ultra I can combo into anywhere on the screen. I mean Rufus has one and it does a whopping 510 every time. It doesn’t even lose hits.
I think her three frame jab is enough to handle focus attacks…that or her backdash.
You’re not always going to be pointblank distance away from your opponent though.
Not really an issue, just a random thought I had.
Opponents dont do focuses that close and her backdash will eventually put her in the corner where its not effective anymore.
I agree with whoever said she needs to have a better armor breaking move. Who the hell is gonna get hit by a SBK?
the problem is what are they going to give her that will break armor???
giving it to hasan shu would be seriously too good… she has it on her ultra already… if her ultra would autocombo then it would be a FANTASTIC armor breaKer…
legs with more range would be okay but wouldnt really help cause of the mash. kikoken cant ever be a breaker.
all that really leaves is to make hasan shu break but retool it to be unsafe on block… but then she has absolutely horrible ways to get in close…
fuck it, i dont mind her being op, so make hasan shu in its current form break so we have some “stupid shit” to abuse like the rest of the cast.
-dime
I don’t really mind, if nothing else it allows me to laugh at all the Cammy players who complain about their armour breaker when they can just do Cannon Drill much of the time.
Other options…
Making Kikouken a qcf would allow her to use EX Kikouken on reaction.
Increasing the range of cr.mk would allow for cr.mk->EX legs from a reasonable range.
Lowering the startup of the second hit on the b.mk string from 13 to 8 or 9 would make it a great focus breaker without effecting it’s other uses at all.
-E. Kikou-Shou? Although Since it doesn’t have great range and isn’t going to have faster startup than Housenka , people will probably still be able to dash back -> punish.
yeah… i thought about lowering the time between her b+mk string as well… but still i dont really like that as a breaker… they can just show focus and then cancel into a backdash and own chun cause that string is horrible…
she needs something thats like -4or5 imho… punishable, but not severely so.
i love the idea about a non charge kikoken as well… but i dont think thats likely to happen.
as far as breakers are concerned shes somewhat hard to abalance imho… auto combo ultra that does 425 -450 damage seems like the way to go and would solve many problems for her…
-dime
Oh, yeah, I hadn’t looked at the recovery on the second kick, daym, that’s awful.
Non-charge kikouken would also solve her “oh you can’t do one frame links? Well you don’t get a non-meter B&B then” issue, which is very slowly turning into not an issue for me, but is still an issue for the character, but then you get the problem that Kikkoken has better recovery & startup than Ryu’s Hadouken. So suddenly either she’s winning fireball wars with everyone except Sagat & The Hadou Brothers, or they nerf it to fuck, and then you can’t walk behind it or abuse mp’s safeness, which admittedly I haven’t been doing recently, or seen other people doing in a while. So maybe that would be fine.
If we’re talking about wackyness, we might as well ask for a gadouken style fireball on top of her current one (which would actually fit her, she’s had lots of short range fireballs before, although giving her two fireballs would be wierd) or changing LL to require only 3 inputs so that far.mp -> EX Legs is combo you can reasonably do, but really, I feel a completely new medium range target combo that isn’t hideously unsafe on block would do the trick. Like you said, -4/-5 is fine, but not b.mk’s absurd standing there doing nothing for an entire second.
on the topic of armor breaking, why not make ex hasan shu do the job? as stands there isn’t really any pressing need to use the meter for that move. this would make it useful. also i think making the player spend meter for the armor break would mitigate the brokenness when one considers how much chun depends on meter for other things. thoughts?
I think that is a good idea…making only EX HSU break armor.
Its not OP, and its going to whiff from point blank range…seems a fair trade.
So is that suggesting that EX Hasan becomes a “shattering glass” armor breaker, or is it suggesting that they give it two quick hits?
Either way, I can’t really see much of a problem with it. The EX version knocks down, too, right? That means you wouldn’t be able to link EX legs into ultra, so it certainly makes it feasible.
I would prefer it to be a proper armor breaker so it doesn’t trade with things like EX rush punch.
i thought about ex hs being an armor breaker and my answer is … no
reason being that the move is to slow to RELY on as a breaker, plus chun already is an ex heavy character… so there goung give her ANOTHER use for meter outside of ex legs, super, and ex sbk???
i mean 4 ex moves to juggle between and try to have meter for is a no no imho… also i dont think ANY character has an EX ONLY breaker.
personally i dont want to have to guess ex hs on whether or not my op will focus… take rog for example, he has 3-4 breakers iirc, yet when i see rogs play they will throw out there breaker in an attempt to anticipate the focus… but they are generally wrong and end up getting there breaker blocked, HOWEVER just the fact that they are throwing out breakers makes the opponent hesitant to throw out random focus attacks…
now apply that to chun… the op can throw out a couple of focus just to get chun to start thinking about doing a break, and then all the op has to do is wait for the breaker to come, if chun does it against a block, the op has won that little exchange cause now chuns offense is a little less powerful and so is her defense.
i dont mind ex hs breaking but if it does the regular versions need to as well.
i mean technically dash ex legs and ex kikoken are breakers as well right? but no one uses these unless the opponent is just that retarded…
in order to have a decent breaker it needs to be something that does good damge in one hit, isnt necessarily safe but is somewhat hard to punish, requires no meter so it can be spammed, and have decent range…
this is why tiger knee and vipers knuckles are the best short ranged breakers in the game… hondas and blankas are ok and bisons regular psycho crusher is horrible…
its all about range, spammability, and safety.
chuns ex hasan shu loses on the range and spammability factor… imho.
-dime
So… You’re suggesting she just needs something new altogether? I think it sounds silly to make only the EX version break focus, and I know that if ALL of her hasans break focus, then that would be a little OP. Maybe, just so you don’t end up wasting meter only to get focus crumbled, the EX version could have a second hit.
As for an all new move to be a focus breaker… Uh… Hmm… This is the first game where I really played Chun. Are there any moves from her past arsenals that she doesn’t have in this one?
honestly naw i dont hink she needs a new move… i think she needs a realistic 2 in 1 that has range OR one of her specials to hit twice.
just a good 2 in one would be good… look at gen… you’d have to be an idiot to ty to focus against him cause mk handslaps pwns focus attacks. ryu and ken are prone to focus as well… but ONLY outside of there cr.mk range… that applys to ken way more than ryu though…
if chuns fierce kikoken lost some range but got a REALLY significant speed boost (so that people cant jump over max range st.mp xx fierce kikoken) then that would be good enough in my eyes and it would be balanced by the need to charge first…
also the b+mk string with tweaks to have further pushback on block while making it between -5 or -6 would also be a good way to give her a breaker… as long as the second hit NEVER wiffs over certain characters heads.
-dime
I really can’t see a problem with making the second hit of the b+mk string come out faster while being a little safer on block. Still punishable, but not so much so that you can go make a sandwich THEN punish it. That would at least make it pretty legit for punishing focus fishing.