Me too I am for her kikosho being qcf. Though I love charge characters, I think she would be unique if she was a semi charge, semi qcf character. And of course it would be easier for antiair purpose.
Really???
Have you tried keeping Super against good opponents?
I ask, because once she gets super, their options are DRAMATICALLY reduced. Her super comes out in TWO frames and can punish damn near anything on block that would have been safe to pokes.
I try to build meter as fast as possible, get super, then watch the match progress…if they are being careful, then I know they are smart and I’ll probably not catch them with the super…but I still keep it because it limits their options and I get to wear them down.
If they aren’t smart, I land the super easily and they lose 1/2 life for the round and that lead is enough for me to build meter back up.
If they ARE smart, and are NOT allowing me to land super, then I say “screw it” and start spending meter again.
I just really like what super does to change the match…its almost more beneficial to HAVE super than to LAND the super.
Para I hate not having that a EX SBK at my disposal. An empty meter to me is frightening so maybe it is just our different play styles that keeps me from using it. Truthfully I really only use it in hit detect combos that I am sure will kill people. But if it doesn’t I have not having an EX SBK on call. I might have to try and punish more blocks strings with it but that would change up my style a lot. I am curious how to see how much you incorporate it into your game.
I just recently started this new tactic of saving and keeping super. I got it from watching Nuki, Nemo, and others in Japan…they do this a lot. They will play the whole first round without spending meter, and then they get super really early in the second round.
If you can win the first round like this, you set yourself up for a HUGE overall advantage in the match. No one wants to be down a round on Chunner when she has super. No one.
I am trying less and less to rely on or even use EX SBK. Same goes for EX legs.
EX SBK has situations where its amazing, but the guys I play against never fall for it. They know how to crossup deep and stuff it. They know how to position a dive kick to stuff it. They know how to mixup with empty jumps so it whiffs and then they get to punish.
Against really solid players, EX SBK for me has turned into a move that only gets me punished, at the expense of meter. Against mediocre players it PWNS though.
As for ex legs, think about this (this comes from Dime, but I immediately saw the value in it and adopted the same technique):
c.short x2 > ex legs = ~180 dmg, costs meter, knocks down.
c.jab x3 > st.fierce = 178 dmg, costs nothing, no knockdown, but great push back.
The jab to fierce link is a tough one (1 framer iirc), but its hard to deny that unless you really want the knockdown, or you can juggle into ultra…it makes a lot more sense to save that meter and punish with the BnB that costs her less.
Just some food for thought…but when you rely on EX SBK less, and EX legs less…you get super SOOO fast…then you are fighting with super (or four full bars) and that is a huge plus for chunner.
What I’d do- given an emphasis on change.
ground SBK removed
SBK is now an air move only, qcb+k in air. This is also how you get rid of the Chun infinite.
She gains her upkicks from ST back
hcb+k becomes her armor break move.
LOL the chun infinite is not an issue for anyone.
Its freaking impossible on Claw (not literally but its so hard that you will NEVER see it in a tourney).
Its easy on Sim, but the scaling makes it no more damaging than any other big combo (many of which are harder to pull off than hitting 10 rounds of that loop in a row).
If you remove ground SBK, you nerf a few of her best combos.
Now here I thought I was the only guy who doesn’t use EX legs. I actually play a rushdown game after knockdown with a pressure kikkoken s.mp xx flip kick / mix up. Keep in mind I am at best a mid range player in this game. 7000 games and a 62% win percentage. If I ever decide to step it up maybe I’ll try to really own with her Super more. And really I only use EX SBK like a Flash Kick when I baited a jump because my opponent thought I was going to Kikkoken. I only wake up anti air when I am certain it will be effective.
But back to topic and as a cross breed semi casual / old school hardcore player, a more consistent ultra that will connect for more hits after juggle and outside of the corner would make Chun more accessible but not broken. No one calls Ryu’s j dp into ultra or Boxer’s headbutt into ultra or Rufus’ insert any launch here into ultra broken, I don’t think it would break Chun.
Well, I use EX legs…I’m just trying to only use it when it makes the most sense…as opposed to using it as the go to punish for damn near everything (which I used to do).
As for her ultra juggle: Absolutely this is needed. It will not even move her up a tier in my opinion. All I really want is for it to juggle as long as it hits…no “character x falls out but only if you were deep in the corner” bullshit.
I think most Chun user’s can agree on that Para. Hopefully this is one of the changes that actually makes it into the game.
You could tiger knee the SBK to get some of those combos perhaps, and she’d gain air combos for the SBK such as head stomp into air SBK. The air SBK would also help vs Sagat I think.
Infinites are always issues, Capcom patched out Abel’s infinite on Fei Long.
Definitely agreed on the ultra hitting better, or gaining an ultra (kikosho) that would hit better.
I like all of Chun’s normals in this game. They’re… interesting, even the funky ones.
My fantasy command normal move: :d: + :3k: as her launcher kick. Puts opponent in juggle state after hit. Can be NJCed on hit but not on block (the only move she can NJC to keep SJC unique for Viper players). Comes out faster (in 5 or 6 frames) and hits harder than the b+mk-> b+mk version but still has very bad/worse recovery on block unless FADC. No input leniency… strictly :d: + :3k:.
…'Still sounds too good after reading that. 
But I’d love it as another AA option.
If Kikousho was an alternative to juggle ultra and did around the same damage (or just good damage in general) I wouldn’t worry much about the OG Ultra not juggling consistently. If it replaces her super however, then I’d like to see the OG Ultra fully juggle consistently on all characters or hook them like Dictator, like you mentioned.
-I’m glad I’m not the only one who might be interested to see a slightly higher damage output as opposed to a health boost. I don’t mind having to make less mistakes to stay alive but the sliver of health thing because she doesn’t really hit that hard is disheartening at times. A couple of counter pokes and AA normals (especially st. HP) should mean “chill the fuck out and think about your next move” for my opponent, not "all I need is one trade and I’m back in the lead/even life! " :lol:
As with most suggestions I’ve made in the past, it’s definitely not a necessity, just a desire. No reason not to talk about things we like though if someone’s considering tweaking the character anyway imo.
Here’s my dream list for Chun:
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Give her a bit(50~100) more health
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Give her ST up-kicks
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Make her Ultra easier to combo into. Auto-connect like Bison would be cool, but that may make it too good. But definitely easier somehow.
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I kind of wish she could use the Ultra as AA. Again, that may make it too good. BUT, if so, then what if when used as AA it did an alternate animation and did less damage.
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Give her super jump!
If Kikousho juggled it would be a nice choice in matchups where you want jugglability over uses in neutral play.
I know many matchups where I would make the trade, but I also know many matchups where I’d rather have her current ultra.
I think most of us are aware of the fact that her ultra doesn’t juggle on about half the cast without careful spacing.
Actually, I think against fireballers you’d be better off with Kikousho since you can do hk hazanshu over fireballs on reaction, though it’s difficult, and then link that into ex legs, Kikousho.
But atleast now I think that if they put Kikousho in, it would have to be pretty broken to be the best ultra in all matchups.
As for her current ultra, I’d like the whiff animation to be shortened, remove the flip at the end and give it ‘normal’ recovery i.e. -10~15 in block.
The problem now is that a failed ultra juggle, by that I mean a connected that doesn’t carry to the corner, is punishable with them doing wakeup ultra, that’s way too much payoff imo.
Chun doesn’t need ST upkicks, just give her ex sbk invul that lasts 1~10 instead of 1~7 and you’d see a big difference.
She already has many good anti-airs, stop being lazy, what she needs is an option to beat a few options such as divekicks, not one option that will beat all.
I’m also for giving her more health, more health equals less risk in forcing mixups.
Honestly, I’d be happy if she just got a better jump. Her jump is too “floaty.” It should be faster.
her super should be armor breaking
this may come from playing online… i hate not having an ex sbk when i’m online as well (even though i dont play online… )
however super is REALLY good when you and your opponent are relatively the same strength as players, if you can manage to hold your own against your opponent offline without using much meter, super grants chun an overwhelming advantage… she basically becomes supersaiyan.
losing your whole meter doesnt matter cause you were able to get there without it so there shouldnt be a problem after using the super.
that totally flies out the window if your opponent is alot better than you though… once you hit the super its like nothing more than a drop in the bucket…
personally if i can, i like saving to super versus fei, honda and rog.
although i find i have it alot versus pretty much any turtle character as my entire style has changed as far as my meter use, which is not to use ex legs unless i have to (matchup specific i still would use ex legs versus cammy for instance since she ducks st.fp)
-dime
Minus the obvious Ultra juggle issues on some characters, I think Chun is fine.
If we’re adding or taking away from her moveset … All I really want gone is :df:+:lk:
Don’t really care for any new moves besides Kikosho (Super) and a Kikosho esque Ultra.
My question though is even if we get a Kikosho esque Ultra, what will be the difference in Ultra setups? Seems to me that her new fireball Ultra will connect in exactly the same way her Housenka does. What’s the fun in that?
Presumably it will either do more damage (and work on all characters even if the current one still doesn’t) but not have all of the punish utility, or will do less damage but have some capacity to be juggled into mid screen. I’m not expecting EX legs -> Ultra mid screen, but j.fierce fierce -> Ultra or back kicks -> Dash Ultra would be cool without being overpowered.
If nothing else, hopefully it would be a useful anti air, and be easier to connect after a focus attack.
I’m expecting a weak Ultra that can be used in a EX Legs combo, outside of a corner. The damage being reduced to nothing because of damage scaling, but if they use it like that, you have at least an Ultra you can use every round.
It would also be an awesome AA and wake up option. The fun would be actually using it in every match then :razzy:
I got thrown out of EX SBK TWICE in tourney at SB4, by the same opponent.
That is just about the most frustrating thing ever…Chun flashes, you SEE her legs pass through Ryu and POW…you get thrown.
What the FUCK???
(((sorry for the rant but it was a really frustrating loss)))