Im reading all this and feel real disappointed that they are nerfing my girl. I hope this is all speculation and rumor. It won’t stop me from maining Chun, but they are making the wrong changes to her. They should make her better not worse. Has anyone here actually gotten a chance to play SSF4? We still have a while before the game is release.
I played it. c.LP and EX SBK still felt pretty good to me. I wouldn’t worry too much, the alterations of her in the build I played didn’t rock her play style, I didn’t really notice them but then again, I was kind of on sensory overload.
So what’s the word on her low forward? I’ve heard all over that it’s been improved, range-wise. And this is from people who played it. There’s a few vids too, and even one where the guy playing says “wow her crouching medium kick reaches a lot farther”, and that was based off the animation alone… But from what I saw, the animation is exactly the same, reaches just about the same as a crouching short. So is it, or is it not?
Personally I don’t think it NEEDS a buff, but damn it sure would be nice!
People have been saying it reached further. I didn’t think so, it felt like the exact same thing to me and I used s.MP and c.MP as her better pokes. I could be wrong though, I didn’t study her c.MK.
This isn’t really the thread for this, but I get the feeling you don’t really play Ken too much. You can bring it over to the Ken thread if you want to continue this discussion.
-CONSISTENT AA that works the vast majority of the time.
> Agree
-Health Advantage
>Agree
-A better FB that doesn’t fade
>Chun definitely has a better fireball both upclose and to completement her ranged game.
Having a fireball that doesn’t fade doesn’t help much when it doesn’t recover fast enough to scare people from jumping it.
Ken’s fireball is generally looked upon as sucky, and I agree.
-Step Kick that is probably one of the best mid pokes in the entire game
>Chun has lots of better pokes than Ken’s stepkick, far mp, far hp and c.hk are all much better and 2/3 of those combo into knockdown.
Step kick can’t be canceled and because of that is easily countered by focus attacks, while Ken doesn’t have a strong move for focus killing.
-Low Forward one of the best low pokes in the entire game which can be cancelled into anything he wants.
Low forward is a great poke, this is definitely his best one, however it only combos into something worthwhile on standing opponents and
will never lead to knockdown unless you’re in their face so you can combo srk afterwards.
-Massive kara throw range
>Agree
-Trade into DP
>Doesn’t really do much damage, especially not enough to compensate the fact that you have to trade to get the damage.
Also doesn’t give him good okizeme.
Chun has better tools than Ken has, simply because she’s got more damage dealing options outside of close-range than he does.
She’s also got a stronger poking game than he does and she can score knockdowns ledaing to safejumps easier.
Her okizeme is also stronger than his is, j.hp~hp mixups along with lk hazanshu, throws, delayed cl.hk, df+hk etc. etc. the list goes on, she’s also got one of the longest non-kara throws in the game.
She’s better at locking down big characters than he is with her mp kikouken > st.hp/st.mk combination.
If they want to buff Ken in ssfiv they need to give him more knockdown potential, he’s already got good okizeme, not as good as Chun (imo) but still very good.
He could be the type of character that hunts knockdown and wants to finish you off by looping his okizeme, but right now he can’t because he doesnt’ get many safejump situations outside of his throws and his crappy sweep.
Then again I haven’t played Ken that much but this is how I generally view him.
agreed with everything except for, kens rush game is better than chuns, but thats about it. his fireball sucks, flatout.
chun beats ken till he gets frame advantage upclose, but thats all hes got, whereas chun can woop ken when she has frame advantage on the inside as well well from everywhere else.
only advantage ken has in the fight is full screen when chun has no ultra and when hes point blank or scores a knockdown.
ken definitely needs some work.
-dime
Hahaha…haha…ha…ha…:bluu:
Actually, I would expect it to beat out most special move anti-airs if they’re done early, including SRKs. Fighting Gief just became even more annoying.
Is sx sbk being nerfed or buffed? From what I heard they made it a realiable anti-air but reduced the range and damage…but that sounds more like a buff to me, cause right now I think this move kinda sucks. Not only it is safe-jumpable, easy to punish, impossibile to FADC but it also trades a lot and gets beat for no reason by meaty jump-ins…today they even landed in the middle of my ex sbk and c.mp’d me beetween the thighs as I was still spinning :\ and this is a move that requires down charge and an ex bar…you would expect it to be at least reliable.
Even if they want to give it throw range I don’t care as long as they make it a realiable anti-air.
I hope the c.lp nerf is false, that doesn’t make any sense, while I may agree for the st.HK nerf (even though I love this normal), right now it can punish people from midscreen just for…walking lol, and it’s too fast to be blocked on reaction (unless you expect it), but if they are gonna slow it down they need to reduce the recovery too ot it will become useless.
And still nothing new about the lk and hk versions of sbk? They could give them better hitboxes so that you can combo cl.HK xx hk sbk on every character without having half the hits whiffing for no reason
Why are people talking about the c.lp being nerfed, it hasn’t been nerfed, it won’t be nerfed either most likely.
Capcom don’t care if Ed Ma and friends send in a list with changes they’d want, that list was sent in more than half a year ago.
Also, her changes to EX SBK are buffs not nerfs, the only people that’ll feel the range nerf are the ones that do random ex sbk’s.
And that’s a good thing, those types of moves need less spam’ability.
Chun can’t combo those pokes into anything either. Combo standing far fierce into knockdown…huh? Chun’s roundhouse is good but its worse focus bait than Ken’s step kick because of the longer recovery…fast focus attacks get a level 2 crumble every time. And really, Ken doesn’t have a strong focus breaker? Try Chun’s sbk which requires a charge so you cant just always do it on reaction, and is then STILL slow as molasses. Tatsu is as good as any focus breaker save Tiger Knee and leads right into Ken’s post-Tatsu mixups, a huge part of his offense. Which is also, btw, why Ken doesn’t really want to knock the opponent down much.
I never said far hp gave knockdown:
- far mp x ex legs is hitconfirmable and gives knockdown that lets you safejump
- c.hk also gives knockdown that you can safejump afterwards.
- far hp does not give knockdown, but combos with another far hp on counter hit.
That’s 2/3 just like I wrote, so don’t go putting words in my mouth.
Chun doesn’t use her sbk to break focus.
If they’re far away she uses far mp x ex legs and if they’re close she uses c.mk x ex legs/c.hp x mk legs or hk legs
Much better choices than throwing out tatsumakis since even if you are charging a focus and you see the tatsu you can backdash to either avoid getting hit or taking the hit while being airborne = removing Ken’s advantage.
Far mp is a good move to throw out both if they are and if they aren’t focusing at that point, just buffer ex legs behind it and if they aren’t then do something else.
It also deals a good amount of damage, between between 220-270 depending on what character it connects on.
Far mp also opens up being able to use c.hk more safely because they don’t want to be throwing out focus attacks without thinking first.
I never said that his tatsu isn’t a part of his offense, because it is, but what it does is that it leaves you in a standing +1 (if you use ex).
A safejump on the other hand leaves you at much more advantage than that while also having bigger reward if it connects for some reason.
You’re eliminating moves out of the mindgame that can’t be eliminated at a standing +1, which is why knockdown + safejump is better than a standing mixup situation.
Chun also happens to have one of the best safejump mixup games in SFIV (imo) so she gains even more than most from absuing safejumps when possible.
That being said, safejumps are good no matter what character you play and one of the only ways in this game to pressure someone without having to fear getting hit back.
show us some vids of you hitconfirming st.mp xx ex legs against focus ON REACTION pls and while we’re at it, i’d like to see some vids of you hitconfirming B+mk string on CH as well… i havent seen many vids of yours but the ones i do seem to remember, you B+MK string into block.
anywho i just want to see some proof of this godlike focus breaker that you speak of… not saying you cant do it… i just want to see it… cause i’ve seen NO CHUN do this in all of the vids i’ve seen and i’ve watched alot nemo never does it and neither does nuki last time i checked… so its either unpractical or something weird is going on like people focusing against you like absolute idiots… or you’re just that godlike… but i want to see.
mostly i just want to see what situations you are getting this off in and i want to see the skill level of your opponents that it works on.
and if it does indeed work then i’ma practice this so also could you give us your mash in order to hitconfirm??? i’ve tried this and i’ve found nothing.
-dime
Give her a claw! XD
i use the st.mp xx ex legs in some of my games (also cl.mp xx ex legs). Not really sure if it’s hitconfirmable though. but anyways, is nemo’s d/f roundhouse unblockable been confirmed fixed?
The way I piano far mp x ex legs:
mp+lk, hk~mk~lk, (confirm), hk+mk+lk
Like I’ve said before many times, it’s both easier and more viable confirming this on focus attack only rather than normal hit because of the blue flash. Another reason is that far mp x ex legs only connects well from long range on certain characters, the ex legs will only land a few hits or whiff on others.
While if done against focus attacks you will get all the hits because they don’t get pushed back by far mp at all, they get closer even if they release their focus.
b+mk is pretty easy to confirm, if I did it on block it was probably because the first hit is -6 anyway on block so in some cases, like against shotos, it’s a valid tactict to delay the other hit and hope for it to counter hit them if they’re pressing buttons.
However, I don’t use this move at all anymore because it doesn’t connect on a lot of characters when they’re crouching and whiffs on some characters even while standing on max range if you confirm it too late.
Too much risk in using this than it’s worth, especially since what I wanted to use it for was against shoto c.mk but since the 2nd whiffs if it hits them crouching, which it will, it becomes less viable and you can just use far mp instead or c.hk as whiff punishment.
Also, far mp isn’t godlike, it’s a better option than a lot of characters have but it’s also not as good as say Sagat’s st.lk x low tiger/tiger knee or Ryu c.mk x hado.
My reasoning for that is that their breaks don’t require you to really think, if they focused it will happen, and if they didn’t you’re safe on block.
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This one is a few months old but it should do.
After the far hp get’s focused I take note of him wanting to focus my pokes.
So then I start doing far mp with buffered legs behind it, you can hear it.
I fail the first confirm, I confirm on 2nd but it’s a trade so nothing happens, and I confirm on 3rd which hits.
In the round after that I do far mp x ex legs but it fails because it hit him because he was jumping.
Of course this isn’t a confirm that you can be 100% with, you have concentrate a lot to pull it off consistently.
Take into account that none of these were on focus attacks, but on regular hit which is harder to confirm than focus.
I also did b+mk on block once in the vid without doing the followup, I don’t know why I used it, guess I was trying to counterpoke c.mk or something.
I’m not going to search for vids to give you proof of it’s effectiveness against focus attacks.
The question you should ask yourself is, why would I be lying about it to begin with, what do I have to gain from that?
The easiest way is if you simply to to learn how to do it without having to see me doing it.
But then again it’s up to you if you want to put the time in or if you wanna remain sceptical, I’m just putting the info out there that it’s a valid option.
Also this is the 2nd or 3rd post I’ve made in a pretty short time that you’ve approached with a rude tone, do you have something against me?
thats a perfect instructional vid skatan THANKS FOR THAT!
as far as the rude tone… no it was a challenging tone. and the reason for it was because like i said i havent seen it at all in any of the high level vids i’ve seen plus i couldnt find a mash/piano for it in training mode… so i put those together and along with vids i’ve seen of you doing B+mk into block… well, yes i was sceptical.
so i just wanted a straight answer, not because i need to be spoonfed info but because when someone has info that no one uses nor has seen, generally the onus is on them to back it up.
so i most definitely apologize for the challenging tone with which i posted towards you i most definitely AM SORRY… hopefully you understand my doubts given the small factual evidence that was there to support this tactic.
(i never thought that you were out and out, lying) pretty much figured that your opponents were focusing stupidly in front of you or something of that nature like you were guessing the hitconfirm against predictable focus …
but that wasnt what was happening at all, your opponent was using his focus very smartly and you were stopping it with the hitconfirm.
and no, i have never harbored any ill feelings toward you… i have no reason to do so.
off topic to the post:
very good play on both sides of the fei chun matchup there, Kudos.
-dime
Pffft. Fan mods for Chun disgust me. Chun would kick some ass if she new about them.
Anyway I welcome the EX SBK changes. Looks like a buff to me. I’d honestly like a little less recovery on mSBK for combos that don’t lead to KO, but it’s no great concern.
I just want a new link for her. I dunno what…just some new combo possibilities.
Pffft. Fan mods for Chun disgust me. Chun would kick some ass if she new about them.
Anyway I welcome the EX SBK changes. Looks like a buff to me. I’d honestly like a little less recovery on mSBK for combos that don’t lead to KO, but it’s no great concern.
I just want a new link for her. I dunno what…just some new combo possibilities.