The Real Bout FF Special Thread: RANGE Line Shift Counter Chart Part I up!

[ShinBlanka]

I think the most comparable situation to this is Last Blade 2. In that game you have to pick Power or Speed mode for your character, but you can use a code to get a hidden 3rd mode called EX that combines the two but takes twice as much damage. You can also use a code to play as the last boss. Yet the EX mode is allowed while the boss is banned. I don’t see why the same idea shouldn’t apply here.

More to the point, Larry, if this is about fairness and being on an equal level, how about if we run a poll? If the majority of the players want EX characters, then it would be less fair NOT to allow them. Yes, that would force players like yourself & ninjamatt to adjust, but you may be forcing far MORE people to adjust if you keep those rules.

And DG, it’s never a good argument to use a set of rules just because somebody else does. By your logic, we should ban the infinites in RB2 since Japan does, and we should all agree not to pick Old Sagat.

You don’t need to completely standardize things, plain and simple.

-Josh

Ok here’s the deal. All none gamebreaking ex characters are allowed.

That leaves nm geese, ex andy and ex billy on the ban list. Use that DG for your tournaments, because i will for frxii. That is a compromise imo.:tup: and I think it’s fair. EX mary isn’t game breaking and ex tung sucks monkey balls from what ive seen. I’m not claiming i’ve seen everything, but I have seen ex andy’s infin. I never been a ex andy player so I have to remeber the right sequence of moves to do the infin. I will test more shit with ex billy just to make sure if i’m going to take him off the ban list.

[KagerouSama]

Ex characters in rbs are nothing like bust or slash version in ss4. Bust and slash are like the cvs2 groove system they STOLE from snk! You choose what style you want to play. Nothing like ex code characters! You see nm geese is the key to everything in rbs. If you allow ex characters then nm geese should be playable in tournament play also. He’s a code character just like the rest of them. Most of you haven’t even played this game and your trying to argue with me about what should or shouldn’t be allowed in tournament play! I find this kinda amusing in a funny dumb type of way. But all jokes aside the ex characters will be ban at FRXII. If that makes you not want to play rbs at FRXII then i’m sorry, but those are the rules.

Ban the ex characters. They are meant for casual play only. They will be banned at frxii. Just so everyone can compete on the same level. I’m sick of playing against 1 billy. Fuck having the boss version of him in tournaments. If I allow the ex characters then I must allow nm geese and that shit aint never happening! You have to unlock geese to get the ex characters anyways so don’t use memory cards when you play rbs in the tournament

“At the character select, move to the character you choose to play as, then do the following: Hold the start button (don’t let go of it!) Tap buttons in sequence: B, B, C, C. Now hold down the B button for about a second. While still holding B (and Start), press and hold the C button. While holding these three buttons, press A or D to select your character in Shadow form. You may now let go of all the buttons. (A or D is used to select the color of your character’s clothes)”

No Geese code needed. Just the sequence.
Nightmare Geese has given you guys a knee-jerk reaction to every other EX in the game. I’ve played a few EXes. And while I’m not high-level at all, I don’t see the big deal; as I have as much of a chance beating an EX as I do an normal.

But with the mass-hysteria reactions I’m seeing…
Well, I’m not wanting to outright call you Chickens…
But it’s sure coming off that way.

[Spooty_Whiteboy]

I think the most comparable situation to this is Last Blade 2. In that game you have to pick Power or Speed mode for your character, but you can use a code to get a hidden 3rd mode called EX that combines the two but takes twice as much damage. You can also use a code to play as the last boss. Yet the EX mode is allowed while the boss is banned. I don’t see why the same idea shouldn’t apply here.

Actually, I don’t think this is comparable at all. In the arcade version of RBS you cannot pick NM Geese (I can’t find a way), but you can pick the EX characters. I think they are comparable to KoF 98 EX characters. You just need a few more button presses, and it is not even hard. The code (the same for all EX characters) is:

Place the cursor on the character you want. Hold Start. Press B, B, C, C. Press & Hold B. After 1 second, Press & Hold C (while still holding B and Start). Then press A or D.

I think none of the ex characters should be banned until they have been proven broken by COMPLETELY dominating. There are only 4 of them after all. Andy, Tung, Billy, and Mary.

EDIT: Kage beat me to the code.

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

Oh see I thought you could pick Geese in the arcade. Good looking out, guys.

And Larry, thank you very much! EX Billy seems a little bit worse than the regular one to be honest - yes, his P-Power is awesome, but it doesn’t make up for losing the Dragon Flame. That move does so much for regular Billy: Breakshot, combo from line shift C, and pressure in the corner.

And I have no idea what would make EX Andy game-breaking. He just seemed like a fun side character to me, so I’d be very interested to hear why you think this.

Thanks again,
Josh.

[ShinBlanka]

Actually, I don’t think this is comparable at all. In the arcade version of RBS you cannot pick NM Geese (I can’t find a way), but you can pick the EX characters. I think they are comparable to KoF 98 EX characters. You just need a few more button presses, and it is not even hard. The code (the same for all EX characters) is:

Place the cursor on the character you want. Hold Start. Press B, B, C, C. Press & Hold B. After 1 second, Press & Hold C (while still holding B and Start). Then press A or D.

I think none of the ex characters should be banned until they have been proven broken by COMPLETELY dominating. There are only 4 of them after all. Andy, Tung, Billy, and Mary.

EDIT: Kage beat me to the code.

You can pick nm geese in the arcade! It tells you how to pick him after you make it and beat him in the game!

[KagerouSama]

You can pick nm geese in the arcade! It tells you how to pick him after you make it and beat him in the game!

I’m telling you that code only works on the NGH.

That code of :r::uf::u::ub::l::hcf::df:, Tap A, Tap B, Tap C at the ranking screen–
Only works on the NGH. The only conceivable ways of using him in the arcade
are either enabling him in the dipswitches, or maybe using your save from an NGH system.

[Dark_Geese]

I’ve countered your arguements by playing against josh, but I do think you have valid points about the plane shift attacks. Mai by far has one of the fastest top C in rbs and with your rushdown style you are always in range to attack your foes weakness. I wonder how mai would do when she can’t control the spacing?

Mai needs to control the spacing plain and simple…yeah if she cant control the spacing theres a problem…but she needs to control the spacing to be played at her maximum potential…Larry you are also forgetting about her Bottom+C…thats better and faster with better range than her Top+C (Mai)!! It’s gotta be one of the best Line Shifts in the game!

Ban the ex characters. They are meant for casual play only. They will be banned at frxii. Just so everyone can compete on the same level. I’m sick of playing against 1 billy. Fuck having the boss version of him in tournaments. If I allow the ex characters then I must allow nm geese and that shit aint never happening! You have to unlock geese to get the ex characters anyways so don’t use memory cards when you play rbs in the tournament

Ok here’s the deal. All none gamebreaking ex characters are allowed.

That leaves nm geese, ex andy and ex billy on the ban list. Use that DG for your tournaments, because i will for frxii. That is a compromise imo.:tup: and I think it’s fair. EX mary isn’t game breaking and ex tung sucks monkey balls from what ive seen. I’m not claiming i’ve seen everything, but I have seen ex andy’s infin. I never been a ex andy player so I have to remeber the right sequence of moves to do the infin. I will test more shit with ex billy just to make sure if i’m going to take him off the ban list.

Okay so EX Tung and EX Mary are legal.

I’m telling you that code only works on the NGH.

That code of :r::uf::u::ub::l::hcf::df:, Tap A, Tap B, Tap C at the ranking screen–
Only works on the NGH. The only conceivable ways of using him in the arcade
are either enabling him in the dipswitches, or maybe using your save from an NGH system.

Hmmm I saw about the home version the code working too but I cant confirm any of this right now…

-Dark Geese

[KagerouSama]

Mai needs to control the spacing plain and simple…yeah if she cant control the spacing theres a problem…but she needs to control the spacing to be played at her maximum potential…Larry you are also forgetting about her Bottom+C…thats better and faster with better range than her Top+C (Mai)!! It’s gotta be one of the best Line Shifts in the game!

Okay so EX Tung and EX Mary are legal.

Hmmm I saw about the home version the code working too but I cant confirm any of this right now…

-Dark Geese

NGH IS the home version.
MVS is the Arcade version.

[MUSOLINI]

um, just since when are ex andy and ex billy broken? shit happen overnight?

[Dark_Geese]

Larry where you at? :wonder:

[Josh-TheFunkDOC]

um, just since when are ex andy and ex billy broken? shit happen overnight?

shinblanka says EX Andy has some really dumb infinite. Next time I play him online I’ll try and see what’s up with that.

I think EX Billy should be legal though - as already mentioned, he’s probably a bit worse than the normal version.

[KagerouSama]

I think EX Billy should be legal though - as already mentioned, he’s probably a bit worse than the normal version.

No probably about it.
He looses a good bit of offense because his rave becomes a bait-and-counter. Sure, it becomes a high and low counter depending on wither he uses B or C.
But it’s no cheaper than Yamazaki’s bait-and-counter. And I’ve yet to have the timing of Billy’s actually work in my favor.
And if it does, the first hit usually goes through and I end up eating a counter.

[Dark_Geese]

I will start a “Range Line Shift Counter Chart” today

Since in my footnote/disclaimer for my Original one I did say that it is assuming they attack each other at the same time at close proximity.

Now I am going to put them at outskirts of range…

-Dark Geese

[Soh]

Sorry guys, but I have lost count of the BS that I have heard in this thread.
Anyways there are only 2 infinities: Sokaku’s in corner and the Geese mid-screen infinite which is character specific and roll recoverable so IT SUCKS (and BTW Geese don’t need an infinite to kill the opponent easy).
Ex Andy hasn’t an infinite and there is no way to land infinities using air chains (LWK, you are confusing with Dominated mind), at most is possible to do 3 loops.
EX characters are allowed in every tournament of this world except in America, and, Cheng is the worst in RBS not EX Tung who is neither that far from normal Tung.

PS: Dark Geese, the 3rd match video linked in the first page it’s not japanese footage, those are random noobs playing online.
Replace it with this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Ost8kje9Cw
It’s a really old video (maybe from Gamest) but it’s certainly better.

[Nocturnal]

Sorry guys, but I have lost count of the BS that I have heard in this thread.
Anyways there are only 2 infinities: Sokaku’s in corner and the Geese mid-screen infinite which is character specific and roll recoverable so IT SUCKS (and BTW Geese don’t need an infinite to kill the opponent easy).
Ex Andy hasn’t an infinite and there is no way to land infinities using air chains (LWK, you are confusing with Dominated mind), at most is possible to do 3 loops.
EX characters are allowed in every tournament of this world except in America, and, Cheng is the worst in RBS not EX Tung who is neither that far from normal Tung.

PS: Dark Geese, the 3rd match video linked in the first page it’s not japanese footage, those are random noobs playing online.
Replace it with this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6Ost8kje9Cw
It’s a really old video (maybe from Gamest) but it’s certainly better.

Yama might have an infinite also with his :df: + :snka: into snake cancel but I dont think it’s the same like in RB2. Might be a lot more difficult to pull off in RBS since stun hits tend to be different also. I also had the impression that maybe EX Andy might have an infinite in RBS:DM I’ll have to test and see if that is true. I wouldn’t doubt it though game is pretty broke.

[Soh]

I don’t know much about RB:DM, but i’m sure of what i’ve said, Yama hasn’t and infinite in RBS and RB2, he has the snake cancel+ chain infinite in RB1.
If you think i’m wrong, prove me the opposite with a video.

EDIT: those df+As snake cancelled in RB2 permits to land a semi-infinite (max 6 times only on some characters, Yama and Chon Shu are 2 of them for sure).

[Nocturnal]

I don’t know much about RB:DM, but i’m sure of what i’ve said, Yama hasn’t and infinite in RBS and RB2, he has the snake cancel+ chain infinite in RB1.
If you think i’m wrong, prove me the opposite with a video.

EDIT: those df+As snake cancelled in RB2 permits to land a semi-infinite (max 6 times only on some characters, Yama and Chon Shu are 2 of them for sure).

I’ll have to do some tests on that stuff to see then. I just meant that it might be possible like in RB2.

[Dark_Geese]

Range RBS Line Chart Part I by Dark Geese

RANGE RBS LINE CHART:

Disclaimer- The first RBS Line Chart Counter system I created I had a footnote for various reasons…it is SOLELY assuming that both characters are hitting each other at the same time up close…therefore it is testing SPEED of Line Shift Attacks?to which yes Mai as shinblanka has confirmed EASILY has some of the best Line Shifts in the game hands down no argument.

-Now I am going to test RANGE…in other words if they are NOT up close to each other and attack at the same time…who wins? The MAX RANGE I am using is as far as the Line Shift attack works. Also as many of you are realizing?very few experts use Line Shift A and B?it boils down to at a high level the Cs as I said a LONGGGGGGG time ago.

Now to the matchups?starting with our ?S- Mai?..lol.

Mai vs. Krauser:
-The key here for range is that Top+C as good as it is has little range?Bottom+C is better by every stretch of the imagination because it has twice the range of her Top+C, and the same speed! Krauser?s Line Shifts have excellent range, BUT if they are within striking range of Mais Top and Bottom+C and come out at the same time, Mais will win.

-Other notes, Top Down+C will make up for Top+Cs lack of range, thus vs. Krauser in the Top plane if you are not in close to Krauser, this is going to be preferred in the Top Plane to close in and get close where you can use Top+C to beat up close.

-Also from good distance out of range of Mais Top+C, you want to use Krausers Bottom Down+C to take advantage of Mais lack of range in Top+C, at a maximum range Krausers Bottom Down+C will win.

Mai vs. Kim:

-Kim’s Bottom+C has more range than Mais Top+C?BUT?once Mai gets in the Maximum range…she beats Kims Bottom+C with Top+C?Mai?s Bottom+C here still has the best range she can offer, beats Kim?s Top+C without a doubt…its her strongest Line Shift.

-Other notes: Kim?s Top Down+C has INCREDIBLE RANGE?moreso than Mais Bottom+C, so I can see Kim being effective with this, but bottom line is once I am inside that MAX range, due to how slow it comes out, Mai?s Bottom+C will win!!! Point simple, Mai is made for close up fighting, you can turtle with her when your opponent has H Power etc and for time out victories, but she is MADE to be in close proximity…you don?t wanna get out of her Bottom+C range in Line Shifting!!! Stay in that range and you are safe because of how FAST it starts up…if you are in her Top+C range you are surely in good hands!

Mai vs. Billy:

-Billy’s Bottom+C has quite frankly the best Line Shift range in the game?Mai is STUPID to use Top+C in this matchup…if you don?t know that now you do!! Mais Top+C doesn?t have good range…so don?t use it! You lose either way Close or at Billys insanely long Bottom+C range! Even at MAX range Mais top Down+C loses to Billys Bottom+C! Your best bet? Either block or jump forward to get closer…stay in that range always!

-Other Notes: Billys Top+C has insanely good range?Like above, it will win against Mai from a distance, you gotta close in vs. Billy…you will lose at his max range if you just sit there?Mai is not the type to play from a distance unless you are abusing Bottom+C and even then you gotta know the range! Even Bottom down+C range wise Billy?s wins so bottom line is to win this matchup with Mai you?ve gotta play smart and get INSIDE his range then consult my Speed Counter chart (first one I made) to know what you can use against Billy when UP CLOSE fighting!

Mai vs. Sokaku:

-Sokakus Bottom+C has more range than Mais Top+C…again Larry, as good as you think Mais Top+C is…it pales to her Bottom+C…its weakness is ITS RANGE…you gotta be close and personal to use it effectively. At Sokakus MAX Bottom+C range it will beat Mais due to it being slightly longer! However up close like I said in my Speed Chart, due to how fast it comes out Mais Top+C will beat Sokakus Bottom+C! Sokaku?s Top+C at his MAX range can beat Mais Bottom+C…but anything inside of that range and Mai wins! Once again for any Mai players this is why I say Mai is meant to be played aggressively up close and personal…she can control the Line Shifting up close and personal PERIOD?as Mais Bottom+C will beat Sokakus once she is inside of Sokaku?s MAX Top+C range…thus you gotta know this and stay aggressive! However, in MAX range of Sokaku?s Top+C you wanna use Mais Bottom Down+C…that has INCREDIBLE RANGE?and beats his MAX range Top+C.

Other notes: Now sure based off this I can see Mai being S-…she has to stay in her Bottom+C/Bottom Down+C range or in the top in her Top+C range…which hurts her compared to the other S Class…BUT?with that being said that just makes her S-?.she?s still top tier but just at the end of the top tier because of that reason?if played correctly Mai can give anyone a hard time if she knows the ins and outs of what she can and cannot do in the matchups!

Mai vs. Duck:

• Duck King?s Bottom+C is very buff guys…it doesn?t have much range but it beats Mai?s Top+C upfront be it in its short MAX range or up close… At its MAX range, Mai?s Top Down+C will trade with Ducks Bottom+C.

-Other Notes- Mai?s Bottom+C owns Duck Kings Top Attacks, be it Top+C close, or top+C maximum range?Mai?s Bottom+C has more range and is faster than Duck King?s.

Mai vs. Mary:

-Mary?s Bottom+C is buff?Once again Larry, again, as good as you think Mai?s Top+C is…Mais Bottom+C is FAR SUPERIOR due to range?Mary?s Bottom+C beats Mai?s Top+C because of its range, but up close Top+C excels yet again…it?s meant for up close fighting as Mai is meant for up close fighting. Now Mai?s Top Down+C trades with Mary?s Bottom+C at MAX range?once again Mai is meant for up close fighting!

-Mary?s Top+C has more range than Mai?s Bottom+C also, but once again once Mai is in that MAX range of Mary?s Top+C Mai wins completely up close?Bottom+C dominates all day…thus furthering my points yet again that if you aint playing Mai aggressively up close on them like white on rice…YOU AINT PLAYING HER RIGHT AND TO HER FULL POTENTIAL!!!

-Other notes: Mai?s Bottom Down+C because it has EXCELLENT RANGE, has more range than Mary?s Top+C thus it is the preffered Line Shift attack if you wanna space in line Shift vs. Mary!

Mai vs. Blood:

-Yes Blood has excellent range on his Line Shifts…YES once again you?d be a fucking idiot :rolleyes: to use Mais Top+C from a distance because it has no range and YES Blood?s Bottom+C from a distance will beat Mais Top+C…BUT…up close as I said before…MAI OWNS UP with Top+C even vs. his Top Down+C.
-Blood?s Top C yes does have more range than Mai?s Bottom+C I have confirmed this, BUT, within that MAX range due to the speed of her Bottom+C being one of the top 3 in the game it OWNS BLOOD up close. Thus once again you gotta stay up close in a range and don?t fight from a distance with Mai! (Even his Top Down+C!)

Now that?s enough for now…now you have a UP CLOSE SPEED Line Shift chart and me furthering my research for now to include a RANGE chart?

This should cover for now why Mai is S-…what hurts her is the S+ Class has more range on their Line Shift attacks if not both of them?but where Mai excels is once she gets in its like Mike Fucking Tyson?you getting KNOCKED OUT!!! :rock:

Also Soh thanks for that vid link I will replace it! :tup:

-Dark Geese

[Syxx573]

tung’s crossup j.C is real good, it was catching me off guard because you can hit it from pretty far away

[ShinBlanka]

Everyone mombo, well I can’t find it. My mind is old and I cant remeber the start up, so fuck it i’ll allow him and ex billy. Good thing i’m an old man that can’t remeber shit. Since I can’t prove what ex andy can do fuck it I will allow him in tournaments. Fuck it dg, everyone but nmgeese is playable.

P.S.- I never said anything of mai’s was to good. I said she’s good up close, but if you control the space she will die. I’m glad to see more people taking interest in rbs now. It warms my heart.