what d3v is trying to say is, there are people here who could possibly do more good for the community i.e. toodles, phreak, gummowned, purplearms/32teeth, etc…
who would be able to design and implement a means of easier customization.
that doesn’t mean don’t apply, it just means that please also consider who would be able to help the community by nominating them as well
sure there will be people who get this, say i got a free stick and not do anything else but there are some people who could design and make things to help out the community as well by getting this beta
please just stop this shitstorm of people thinking that tech talk is trying to be a bunch of elitists by telling you not to apply
also stop trying to justify that you’re more deserving of a custom by saying “its what razer wants” . Seriously its just getting annoying and is reducing the credibility of SRK Tech talk as a whole in the eyes of everyone else.
I kinda agree with them; we shouldn’t be discouraging anyone from registering. Sure, there will be an absolute shit ton of people registering with no more intention than thinking they’re signing up for a lottery for a free stick. Sucks, but not much can be done about it. I’d expect the folks at Razer combing through the entries would already be looking out for that type of applicant. But any entrant willing to provide a thorough critique should be welcomed, including those who would use it for Castle Crashers and nothing else.
If you plan on being serious about your end of the bargain, and providing Razer with your honest opinion and critique of the stick, please, sign up. But please also take a moment to look through the nomination thread, and recommend folks whose opinion you’d also like to see used.
(Especially Phreakazoid, so we can get Link’s and matching storage compartments in them.)
In all honestly I’d love to see as many TT go-ers sign up as possible (even the once in a while peruse type who don’t mod often/at all). That way not only are the heavily nominated folks there to help tip the scales towards us, but we also get a heavy dose of applicants who are probably more willing to provide proper/good feedback than the average Kotaku user or SRK front page reader, whatever the end use may be.
I’m crossing my fingers to get into the beta, but I’m also very much hoping that quite a few others of us here do as well. If I do get in though, first thing I’m doing is cutting that bat-top pocket to fit the first factory machined Link
I’m also very curious as to when they plan on making selections. This month, a couple months? It sounded as though they want to take initial feedback, do a second manufacture for beta testing and THEN send out to catch new feedback.
What Toodles said!! If anyone feels like they have something they can contribute, then sign up! I would like as many people from TT be on the beta panel as possible. But also, while you’re at razer’s website throwing your name in, why not drop some nominations for modders that have either helped you in the past, whether it was providing great products, information, answering questions, or just modders that you think are really good at what they do and would make a great contribution to the beta program. Nominations help make sure that our top modders get in on the program, and the end result will be a better product from razer that the whole arcade stick community can enjoy. :tup:
I’m surprised there’s next to nobody talking about placing the select button to the left of LP or LK for “S-linking” (Select P-linking)… I always thought it would be a good idea for SF4/SSF4/SSF4AE.
IMO, there should be lots of room for customization. Say, more button holes than buttons, so you could place the buttons wherever you please. That, or panels for different button layouts: a 9-button one (e.g., ((Select, LP, MP, HP, dummy), (nothing, LK, MK, HK, dummy))), a 7-button one (9-button minus the “dummy buttons”), an 8-button one as the one in the Hori VLX and a 6-button one as some people would like.
Hell, if you want to be wild, place the stick AND the direction buttons la Hitbox on the left in a way that lets you use either method comfortably. A hitbox/stick hybrid would be one hell of a unique offer as far as industrial-grade Arcade controllers are concerned.
I honestly question whether modders should be ranked higher than the “average consumer” in this beta program. Sure modders are useful and they’re definitely helpful to the community, but honestly out of the thousands of T.E.s out there, how many are modded? Now how many of those modded T.E.s were modded by a well-known modder? The average consumer isn’t going to mod his/her stick (unless you consider throwing plexi on top of the panel “modding.” In the end, the question for Razer should be “how functional is this for the end consumer?” What should set it apart should be durability, ergonomics, efficiency, and probably a little bit of aesthetics. These things don’t necessarily have to be tested by modders.
Not saying modders shouldn’t have input, just that their input shouldn’t be weighted higher as a whole. Looking at the capabilities of the stick already, it already seems easy in/out for buttons and whatnot. What more can a modder add other than that (well, that would be feasible for a mass-production stick)?
But it’s the small things that can make or break the stick, stuff that regular folk might not notice.
As it stands, the stick is pretty much one of the most difficult to mod sticks. After art, the second most common mod is to switch to Seimitsu clear buttons to allow for buttons that have art in them. Something that is now more difficult to do thanks to the one piece QD housing - something that the average Joe wouldn’t notice, Razer sure as hell didn’t notice this until we raised our voices. Thanks to this, someone wanting to change buttons to go along with their art will need to actually cut the wires and learnt to crimp - something you do not need to do on the MadCatz or Hori sticks.
The reason you do a beta test is because you want people to find and point out the problems with your product, this isn’t something you can simply entrust to the average Joe of the street. You need to put it in the hands of people who know what to look for.
Hmm points well-made. I’m just not convinced that they’d care if they completely abandoned Seimetsu users. I guess with the stick market being as small as it is, it’s good to try to cover EVERYBODY, but I’d imagine 90+% of stick users will use and be happy with Sanwa buttons. Would you rather be more convenient to those users or less convenient but accommodate Seimetsu users? I’d rather it just be simple for my Sanwa buttons personally (though I haven’t gotten to test it out so I don’t know how easy it is to just switch buttons on it).
That being said, I get your point. A modder’s input IS important- I’m not going to deny that- I just don’t know if people notice the same things that modders notice. For instance, perhaps a modder would value the PCB being common ground over the average user not liking the size/weight. Which one would be more important to Razer? I’d say the latter.
Then they might as well drop any claims of making the “Ultimate” since then it’ll be just another manufacturer cashing in with a product riddled by newb mistakes (PDP we’re looking at you).
Also, stuff like size/weight are easily tested even in house. But in house testing and even focus groups can’t catch all the small odds and ends that you want to catch before release. Beta tests are partly so that people who are attuned to these things can find and point these out. It’s about testing the product to the limits, something that not everyone can do.
Also, it’s not even just for ease of modding. I mean, do you think that the average Joe will test for things like input lag, SOCDs, etc.?
hrm, my general opinion is just that modders will have the same opinions as the average on the basics such as size, weight, feel, etc but modders have like an “expansion pack” of other things they can look at because they tend to have a larger knowledge base of sticks. No offense to the average joe but if they can get the beta tests out to people who can put in more input, why not?
If a college math professor and high school math teacher were both willing to teach your kid algebra, why not have the college professor teach it? they are both equally qualified to teach that subject, my argument is just that there is no harm in an expert opinion
edit: haha i also think modders will probably have a more rounded opinion because many of them have modded extensively not just for themselves but for others so they have a larger perspective on what customers like or have wanted done to their sticks. The average joe has probably used one or two different sticks in his or her life and just his own opinion and his friends, whereas the average TT or modder has touched dozens if not hundreds of different sticks and met the same number of people
Why is that funny? It’s true. There are a lot of people that refuse to use Sanwa parts. Also, if he had experience with something else, he might not like Sanwa parts anymore, either. Why is this post funny?
The problem is that modders have so many other things to test for that it’s very easy to miss the simple stuff. And I didn’t say modders shouldn’t be allowed to test the stick. I just question the elitism of modders saying that noone else should test the stick when I don’t think their opinion is a lot more valuable than any other person who’s genuinely willing to give their feedback.
Eh, thanks for your assumptions? I mod sticks occasionally, I know all the modders in my region, I host one of our region’s largest tournaments (last one had ~200 people including Marn and Justin Wong), and I’ve traveled all over including 8+ states as well as Japan just to play Street Fighter. I’ve tried Sanwa buttons, Seimetsu buttons, Happ buttons, Crown buttons, as well as knockoff Sanwas (from the TvC stick) and garbage Hori stock buttons. Oh and the Suzo-Happ (imitation?) buttons on the MK stick (are they iL now? I forgot). My former roommate and I had about 15-20 sticks between us.
A vast majority of players prefer Sanwa buttons. It’s just the simple truth. If you gave someone an HRAP-EXSE vs. an HRAP-EXSA then people will prefer the SA. Not saying that Seimetsu buttons aren’t great quality- there’s a reason they’re successful too. However, they’re just not as popular as Sanwa. I NEVER said noone uses Seimetsu. I’ll agree that “many” users despise Sanwa since “many” is just a relative term. Many could be 10 people or a thousand people, but it’s still nowhere near the majority.
It’s funny because the amount of people who dislike Sanwa parts is nowhere near the amount of people who like Sanwa parts. If you’re making a mass market device, you really don’t have to cater to the minority. We’ve seen it time and time again- modders will be able to mod the stick anyway and those are the people who will generally be doing modding services for people. If you want Seimetsu buttons, it looks like all you have to do is cut, crimp, and then you have normal QDs. That’s the price you pay for not wanting stock. IMO as someone who’d buy this stick, I’d love just popping the buttons out and then popping them back in. A custom button harness is a much better idea than having inferior QDs when QDs only benefit the vast minority. It’s not even 60-40. It’s like 80-20.
Let’s be real here- T.E.s are easy to pop Seimetsu buttons in right? What percentage of T.E.s do you see with Seimetsu in them?
Also, it’s funny because you make assumptions about my experience with sticks.
