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I don’t really know. I haven’t faced good enough Hakan’s to really have to worry about that. But I wouldn’t get in a normal battle with him, someone with great knowledge and usage of his normals will most likely win every time as he has access to more normals than anyone.

162

I consider Hakan tied with Rose for my main, so I can offer a bit more insight into fighter theory.

Hakan is probably more of a footsie character than a grappler. He basically becomes a stronger footsie character with better grapple abilities and setups after getting oiled, and he can only oil up safely after a knockdown, not counting sweeps. I most commonly oil up after a normal throw, or slide + follow-up.

While it is good to keep away from him when oiled, you must also look for opportunities to attack. NEVER I repeat NEVER throw sparks when Hakan is oiled and has EX Meter. He can EX Slide projectiles on reaction easily. Not only that, but he can DNC (Dash Normal Cancel) out of focus, and hit you with some seriously long range normals. Damn near Dhalsim level.

My recommendation is to either use long range pokes yourself, spam spiral so he can’t focus (beware of his coward crouch as well though), and jump around with cross-ups and such at the right ranges to make it less likely for him to air grab you (he doesn’t really have any better anti-airs aside from U2 or Oiled EX SPD.)

Finally, pick U1 against him. Hitting Hakan with just U2 when he’s oiled doesn’t do stifling damage, and it’s not as much of a deterrent against him oiling up while you’re standing as much as U1 would be. He has plenty of high risk moves, that you might as well just watch for the ones you can punish rather than trying to be fancy with U2 combos.

163

Thanks metro…that kinda what I thought about hakan…didn’t think about U1 though

164

what’s up everyone?! i recognize quite a few of the names in this sub forum, which is a change…lol. i’ve pretty sure i played both saqs and luffy regularly in vanilla championship mode (i remember always coming up against 2 rose players with ridiculously high gp lol).

i’d mained guile pretty much since vanilla launched. recently i’ve been exploring my options for a secondary, so i totally dropped guile for about 2 months. i ended up with rose, juri and sakura as the characters that i’m naturally good with. i like rose so much that i think you might see me around these forums a bit more often (seems to be one of the most informative and friendly sub forums on srk btw).

one thing i don’t understand though: when i was watching the evo stream, the commentators kept mentioning how they thought rose beat guile. at first glance, i can see why some would think this way, though i have to disagree (i think it’s totally even). just wanted to know what the rose mains thought about the match, why it might sway in her favor ect.

165

There was some discussion recently in the other match up thread…

http://shoryuken.com/f277/rose-strategies-match-ups-174874/index38.html

166

apologies. i should’ve checked.

167

Oh no you didn’t bother me. I was more pointing out how it’s funny that we have two match-up threads still relatively active. :looney:

168

it’s a bit confusing having two threads still active lol.

anyways, quick noobish rose question: what aa do you use to beat gouken’s demon flip (or whatever the fuck his version is called)?? i kept using crouching fierce because that works for my other mains…but it wasn’t working for me at all and eventually it cost me the match. i went into training and pretty much everything seems unreliable. i can stuff it with a very early crouching fierce and close standing roundhouse. but seems you have to guess it’s coming rather than aa on reaction. i guess the only option is to backdash?

169

I am having so much trouble with the Honda match. Jab xx hands pressure puts me in the corner and I stay there. I can sometimes get out and try to keep him in the corner but that fails fast. I have no pokes that seem to work, he beats everything.

Does anyone have any tips or some matches that I can watch were a Rose can do something?

170

Depends on the Honda player’s style, but generally, most good Honda players will apply pressure with jab into hands. If you see this coming and the player establishes this pattern, you can try back dashing away or using EX Soul Spiral, though my results with EX Soul Spiral as a reversal have been widely varying. I haven’t tried to use it to beat HHS out yet, but I imagine to beat it out you’d have to time it right before the HHS comes out.

For the most part, if you can force Honda to jump over Soul Sparks, you have an advantage. Since Honda’s jf.HP alters his hitbox, c.HP isn’t as reliable as it was before. You can still beat jump in HP with c.HP, but it seems to trade a lot more and most, if not all trades are in Honda’s favor.

However, you can use Rose’s df.MK slide to get under Honda and force a throw tech or beat out his HHS/Ochio throw/Sumo Slam (any version except EX) with a properly time s.MK.

As far as Honda’s Sumo Slam spam goes, you can c.HP his HP and MP versions on the way down, but have limited options against his LP and EX versions. I believe you can focus dash the hit on the way down, but it’d probably be hard to do on wake up. From what I’ve seen, EX Soul Throw beats out all of his Sumo Slams on the way up. Be careful not to eat an ochio throw if you get into the habit of blocking all of his Sumo Slams.

In this match up I use Ultra 1 to keep Honda from spamming relatively safe headbutts when I don’t have meter and to limit his jump ins. Forcing Honda to play from full screen to about mid screen is to your advantage, as Rose doesn’t deal enough damage to go toe to toe with Honda.

One last thing about Honda. Beware his cross up MP, c.LP, LP Ochio throw/HHS. Most times you can safely avoid this by simply focus dashing out of the cross up situation, but there are certain times when I haven’t been able to escape cleanly and ended up eating a good chunk of damage as a result.

Now, I propose a question:

When in the corner, how do you escape Bison’s LKxxLK Scissor Kick frame trap with Rose? I’ve tried using EX Soul Spiral, but it gets stuffed by the Scissor Kick. I thought c.MP would beat out Bison’s c.LK, but it got beat out every time or simply didn’t come out at all, thus putting me in the loop all over again. Was I just timing it wrong?

171

vs Honda

  1. You win when you have meter. When you have meter, you can punish his heavy punch Sumo Headbutt with EX Soul Spiral and you can zone him out very well.

  2. NEVER slide vs a blocking Honda, you will be headbutt. Never slide against a Honda who is angle jumping. We have that nasty habit of sliding as an anti-air. His j. mp beats out our slide clean. He will follow up with jab hands.

  3. Make him lose his charge as often as possible. You just own when he doesn’t have charge.

  4. Put him in the corner, you can punish his headbutts while in the corner, much like Blanka balls.

  5. cr. HP is your BEST friend, use it often, but not too often.

  6. Zone. I’ve had Honda players tell me to zone, and I had Honda players tell me to rush down. Zone as much as possible and get as much damage from Soul Sparks as you can. Though, the corner is a dangerous spot.

  7. Sumo Headbutt = 200 damage. Avoidddddddd. hahaha.

  8. Bait out that Oicho. jab hands fadc jab oicho hurts a ton.

  9. Sumo Slam isn’t a big problem, get out of range, punish with cr. mp xx soul spiral

  10. Walk forward while he’s walking forward. You can’t charge walking forward, remember that. :nono:

@ KD Alpha

Yes, his crouching lk is 3 frames and our cr. mp is 4 frames. You will get stuffed. Personally, I just wait for them to mess up or I just neutral jump.

Hopefully it works. Yeah, one time in Street Fighter we have to hope for something to work. :sweat:

172

Not trying to knock anybody here but why isnt the rose vs stuff in the stickies on the front page of this thread? Wasn’t this made to consolidate all the rose vs info? I know alot of us that have been playing rose for a while wont be effected either way since we have been hearing the same stuff for about a year now, but it would stop the character spefic threads from popping up randomly.

173

Hm?

What do you mean? Isn’t this the sticky that we are supposed to talk about matchups because the old one doesn’t get updates.

Then again it doesn’t matter now.

174

I find most Honda’s don’t jump at Rose, especially after they eat a cr.hp or two. Also I don’t find Honda’s use anything but jab headbutt in this match as they either know or find out we have no punish for it. I’m beginning to think it’s Rose worse match up. I find it easier then Bison.

Also I find zoning Honda pretty hard. J.Hp is just brutal.

175

Honda is even honestly.

Just takes a while to figure out.

The thing is, you can keep him away.

While he just does 200 damage per a really fast special which kills your soul huh? lol

Good Hondas do j. mp.

It hurt.s

176

I found out recently that you don’t even need EX ST to beat Dive.
[media=youtube]xC99DwVVhSk[/media]
Poor guy must’ve been salty as fuck. :lol:

177

You can also punish like hell if you block dives and choose not to soul throw. f.HK and I believe a Super/U1 will punish his ass for it.

178

Relying on Ultra 1 to beat out Condor Dives is risky. If you time it wrong, he’ll be able to hit you with Condor Dive above the scarf’s hit box. Soul Throw works well, but I usually try to block and go for some variation of a normal into HK Soul Spiral, as it causes more stun/damage. Ultra 1 is definitely my favorite for this match up though, since some T. Hawk players like to use Condor Spire to get in. Also, don’t get into the habit of using Soul Throw on reaction to T. Hawk’s jumps as his air normals will beat it out if they’re expecting a Soul Throw.

Played a Bison today and figured out a couple ways to avoid the c.LKxxLK Scissor Kick loop, but timing is really key. Rose’s c.LK seemed to trade with it, which will allow you time to neutral jump out of the loop or jab Bison out of the Scissor Kick if he still plans on doing it. I don’t usually have trouble with Bison’s, but that loop in particular tore me up the first time I encountered it.

179

Because I’m waiting for a critical mass of relevant/good matchup advice to put there.

Stuff like “bait out that ochio” isn’t going to cut it, I’m afraid.
Neither is “Spam Spirals against Hakan” w/ his SPD.

And… I’m lazy.

180

Obviously since that wasn’t even the point of my advice against Hakan. That wasn’t even a scratch on the surface of what I said. Go back to your squirt guns and wet dreams.

If somebody is going to write comprehensive strategies for every match-up, then just post it in your own thread. My God, we have 8 pages of discussion and Renegade only updated 2 characters, both from Shinkuur’s accounts. You even reading posts Renegade, or you just living up to your name? What an embarrassment.