LOLUMAD?
You still advised “spamming spirals” against a SPD character. HK Spiral ranges from -4 to +2, and if even if you’re max ranging it, Hakan can easily grab you before it comes out. If you cancel into it, free EX SPD.
Just because it’s 8 pages, doesn’t mean it’s all super awesome stuff… but I’ll update some things from good Rose players.
And stop getting all worked up on the internet.
Lol at least you kept it real, but i hear you i wouldnt want to do it either. But i do think there is some good stuff scattered around this thread though. It might be easier if you get someone to help you or if u let ppl write in the first page stickes and just eliminate the bad info.
General Match Score
Tier Lists- 5-5
My opinion: 6-4 Rose
Basic Strategy
To be honest, I think this is one of Rose’s best fights It really comes down to three things.
Close S.MK beats EX TT, Breathless, Grabs, whatever. And can link into C.LP into Drill. This can also be used on defense to get out of Abel’s mixups. Only real solution is EX COD, which will lose to blocking, drills, U2, or whatever.
Ultra 2 is that get out of jail free card. Abel’s only way to ignore it is to EX Marseilles Roll. Abel has to either bait it out to block it or make the rose mess up their inputs in a reversal situation. Still, completely stopping ABel’s momentum and putting him on the defensive 1-2 times a match is a huge advantage.
Drills-
Abel’s lack of any 3 frame or at a distance 4 frame moves really hurt him in punishing drills. HK Drill is practically safe.
Given how much Abels like to focus, this is a really good thing. He can do an EX TT or EX Marseilles roll to counter if you cancel from something, but if you don’t do anything, he’s in a bad position.
the problem is obviously Rose, no ultra/no meter, and Abel threw you. Well… don’t get in that position?
Rose is a little better than most in that she gets 2 chances to escape mixup city for free. Use them wisely.
I’m not worked up, you’re just disappointing and you read things too emotionally.
When Hakan’s oiled, he can DNC (parry) any heavy poke and combo you for 200 damage + knockdown. It’d take an amazing player to grab Rose out of spiral before it makes contact. I’m sure if he SPD’d at the same time Rose starts spiral from max range, SPD will whiff. It actually has less range when oiled than Zangief’s LP SPD.
If not “spam spiral”, what is the answer to Hakan’s DNC ability?.. Sit and block? Many normal attacks of his (PLUS SAFE WHEN BLOCKED SLIDES) can be ticked into SPD/720 aside from oiled f.HK which knocks down on hit.
I don’t see why you’d rather debate over a match-up, by the look of it, I know more about, than stick to making your OP fully functional. If you actually did work on this thread more actively, be part of the discussion, see the error in our strategies and correct us with your amazing knowledge that has only so far gone anywhere from “you’re wrong… bad advice” to “I know how to make threads and give them titles that sounds useful”, then I wouldn’t be criticizing you at this very moment; where instead I may be commending you.
All you have to do is read, copy and paste. That’s all it should take. Even if a strategy is flawed, at least it’s something potentially worth trying out or for the critical thinker to decide for themselves. There are too many character specific match-up threads where many people are giving advice that could’ve/should’ve already been available in the OP of this thread.
How did you do at Evo by the way? Or did you not go because it occurred during Squirtgun weekend? :razzy::razzy::razzy:
[Dictator]
General Match Score 4-6 Bison
My Opinion 4-6 Bison
Basic Strategy
Ugh. This match sucks. Bison has great pokes like Rose, is more mobile, controls the ground with intelligent scissors loops and crushers, and does well in the air with J.MP and Headstomps.
In regards to getting out of Scissor Traps…
[/spoiler]
This is b.c S.MK is airborne?
Bison can’t actually be too S.HK happy here, because many of Rose pokes beat it (C.MP, C.MK, slide, godlike footsies with s.HK or s.HP lol), so he’ll have to go his C.MK. You’re S.MK and S.HK will go over it.
Be really careful about your slide/drill usage, b/c if you do an slightly unsafe slide, it allows bison to have a charge for C.LK xx scissors. Try to backdash after them if possible, if if you’re feeling frisky, S.MK.
Against Hakan, I’ll use a lot of max range C.MK xx EX Soul Spark when he’s oiled. Or try to EX Drill on reaction to focus. Or if he got an EX oil or HK oil, I’ll just activate Ultra 2. Armor break city.
However, I haven’t even really played but one good Hakan ever, so you do know more about the matchup then me. I’m just thinking spamming potentially unsafe drills is a bad idea. If I can react to Boxers punches with Gief’s LP SPD, hakan can do it too.
At EVO… I lost to DaggerG’s Guile and Sanchez’s Cody by a hair. Both of them put major hurtings on me with frame trap city, although I think rose has an advantage in both matches.
I actually lost a match b/c I tried to punish Last Dread Dust too early and got hit by a fucking wrench. I usually do terrible at EVO’s b/c I run 3 pools and get no sleep.
WOW, ive never been so annoyed by a seth player until yesterday, yeah hes a good seth player but i just cannot get close to him at all, the majority of the match ends up being far screen all the time. I cant seem to pin him down cuz he’ll teleport and jump back hp , the usual seth gimmicks. Basic strategy against this bastard?? Ill get the occasional focus through his punches, but then he reverts to throwing sonic booms and then i get hit by them…
Okay, now I’m starting to get stalked by Bison players. It’s very annoying. Why can’t I get stalked by like, Makoto players?
Most runaway Seth players are highly annoying, but you can deal with them easily by reflecting the sonic booms back at them (HP Reflect if they have a tendency to jump a lot, MP Reflect if you want to prevent s.HP). If they’re used to jumping and going straight into j.HP, the reflected sonic boom will punish them. Since his recovery on the sonic boom has been altered, most full screen sonic booms can be safely reflected, but try to keep it at full screen so you don’t get punished by s.HP.
Really, Rose has the advantage in this match because she can force Seth to come to her by reflecting fireballs and jumping straight at him with j.MK or j.HP when he wall jumps at you. Be careful though because he can cancel his wall jump early with a dive kick and punish your attempt to beat it with a big combo or an ultra. For runaway Seth’s I recommend Illusion Spark, since his j.HP arms have a big start up and long recovery, allowing you to land the ultra. If he starts rushing down when his runaway stops working you’ll need Soul Satellite to stop his dive kick/pressure game. Avoid the corner against Seth at all costs, as that’s where he does his most damage and stun. Try to build meter in this match by using LP Soul Reflect, allowing you opportunities to use EX Soul Throw and EX Soul Spiral when needed. These are your best tools for escaping the corner, but you’ll have to use them correctly (example: when Seth jumps at you to land d.MK or a cross up dive kick, use EX Soul Spiral to cleanly escape from the corner).
The problem with wanting to use Different Ultras for different style Seths is that, you don’t know what style the guy’s going to use until after you’ve picked your Ultra…
Yes, pick Illusion Spark against the character with the craziest mixups and crossups in the game…
Seriously, guessing J.HP and doing ultra would work exactly how many times? Once? Maybe Twice?
That’s shenanigans, not strats.
I’d switch reflecting/focusing fireballs, try to build ultra. activate and then walk towards him. Two orbs and a soul throw is basically half life on Seth, he’s going to be very afraid.
A lot of the runaway Seth players don’t have a strong mix up game, so they rely on their runaway. If you shut that down, they won’t have much to go on, allowing Rose to do work. Your strategy is fine too, though. I was just offering one way to go about it. If you know the Seth player’s style and fight him often enough, you can get a feel for what they want to do during the match. I don’t suggest it in high level play or a tournament setting, but relying on Ultra 2 to do your damage for you seems like a bad idea because if you can’t land it…what next?
Using Ultra 1 may not get you that protection to fall back on, but if you can win without it, even better.
Offensively, Ultra 2 is never about the direct damage, it’s about forcing your opponent to do something that you’re ready for. With it on, Seth can’t teleport behind you, he can’t really jump, he can’t stand fierce, and you can MP/HP reflect his fireballs without much fear (unless he has U1)
With Ultra 1, you’re guessing at best.
And if you whiff U1, here comes a Seth pimp combo into Mixup City.
Just HAVING orbs available makes Seth much more afraid to mix you up.
And as for Seth Runaway… does any good Seth’s do that anymore? Between the nerfs to sonic boom and J.HP, I thought that strat died.
Considering since Super has been released, I haven’t seen a single Seth do that well in a tourney, does it matter?
Was this online? Any chance that the Seth you played was a guy named ibuklee? He is the only good Seth player I have played on psn that plays keep away. I also have been having trouble getting in on Seth who plays very defensively. I do agree that U2 is the better option, but I have not used it offensively against Seth like Renegade suggested.
Ultra 1 can be timed properly to punish whiffs, jump ins and teleports. It’s not so much of a guess as it is a punish. Soul Satellite, no matter the situation, is always a guessing game. The only difference is it hasn’t been around long enough for everyone to have figured out its exact properties yet. It’s a great ultra, but it isn’t the end all like a lot of people like to claim it is. It definitely has its drawbacks as well.
I fought a number of Seth’s in Ranked who still try to do Sonic Boom, j.HP, wall jump/teleport. What gets me is most of these guys have high BP, so it’s obvious that people are still having problems with the runaway tactics he had in vanilla.
hahah yes its him, lost to em like 5 straight? honestly, he rlly doesnt do much when i get in but tries to escape, and when i have orbs he’ll run away…
lol his name is actually Leebuki. He’s on my friend list. And despite that, I have messaged him some pretty salty things once upon a time. Seth is no joke at a distance. He can bank off punishes for sparks by getting you so frustrated that you actually think it’s a good idea to throw one.
And if it’s online, and there’s even a trace amount of lag, you’re going to be at a disadvantage unless U2 is present.
They have Rose losing to Guile >.>
Dhalsim needs to be put as even, Abel is atleast a 6-4 match up in Rose’s favor.
It’s even against Blanka. Against Zangief it’s even now.
.-.