The Power of U2: SSF4 Rose Match-up Thread

[Renegade]

I figure it’s a good time to start a new, updated matchup thread, since Rose seems to have changed a great deal and there other characters have too. It’d be great if I can get a couple of the top Rose’s (Saqs, Luffy, etc) to give some matchup opinions and breakdowns. I’ll be PM’ing you very shortly. I’ll also give perspectives from the other characters points of view.

Rose was listed as C Tier in Vanilla IV.

These are matchups from the Japanese Wiki/ Eventhubs chart… since no other lists really included console characters.

RY 4 KE 5 CH 4 HO 6 BL 5 ZA 4 GU 5 DH 5
BO 4 CL 5 SA 4 DI 4
CV 5 RU 5 ELF 6 AB 4
GO 5 GK 6 SE 4
SK 5 FI 5 DA 6 CA 5 GE 5

The curious one is listing Honda as a 6-4 win and not having any matchup worse than 4-6. (Boxer and Sagat were especially hard.

Now, with orbs, better combos, faster C.HP, better Soul Throw, and a better C.MP, how will she fare?

This will probably also be updated in the wiki section of Rose that I’m working on as well.

Rose Compendium, if you will.

[Renegade]

Abel

Spoiler

General Match Score
Tier Lists- 5-5
My opinion: 6-4 Rose

Basic Strategy
To be honest, I think this is one of Rose’s best fights It really comes down to three things.

1. Close S.MK
2. Ultra 2
3. Drills

Close S.MK beats EX TT, Breathless, Grabs, whatever. And can link into C.LP into Drill. This can also be used on defense to get out of Abel’s mixups. Only real solution is EX COD, which will lose to blocking, drills, U2, or whatever.

Ultra 2 is that get out of jail free card. Abel’s only way to ignore it is to EX Marseilles Roll. Abel has to either bait it out to block it or make the rose mess up their inputs in a reversal situation. Still, completely stopping ABel’s momentum and putting him on the defensive 1-2 times a match is a huge advantage.

Drills-
Abel’s lack of any 3 frame or at a distance 4 frame moves really hurt him in punishing drills. HK Drill is practically safe.
Given how much Abels like to focus, this is a really good thing. He can do an EX TT or EX Marseilles roll to counter if you cancel from something, but if you don’t do anything, he’s in a bad position.

the problem is obviously Rose, no ultra/no meter, and Abel threw you. Well… don’t get in that position?

Rose is a little better than most in that she gets 2 chances to escape mixup city for free. Use them wisely.

From a Rose perspective, I personnally think this matchup is 6-4 for Rose because of Rose?s standing MK which evades everything outside a EX COD. Both characters are in a bad position when they are down, but it?s harder for Abel IMO, mix-up St.Mk against tech throw/TT/EX TT/backdash, C.lk, throw, neutral jump, that?s a lot of mind game for Abel there ?. As for Rose?s wakeup, if the Abel doesn?t OS (sweep, u1… whatever that catchs a backdash) or delay his meaty, she can escape Abel?s pressure pretty easily with a backdash.
Then, Rose can prevent Abel from going at close range with her large arsenal of pokes, AND? all version of spiral outside EX is pretty safe on guard unless is uberly bad spaced. That means, she can spiral backdash for days unless you dash to follow her backdash, meaning that you actually take a risk.
Still, no fireball can be done, or Abel will close up for free with his roll, or just FA it for his ultra.

Adon

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Akuma UPDATED 8/18

Spoiler

General Match Score
6-4 Rose
My opinion: Probably 5-5 or so.

Basic Strategy
Rose can reflect Akuma’s Red fireballs.
Use Upwards Reflects on his fireballs to catch random jumps and demon flips. You can tack a Soul Throw on afterwards
EX soul throw will pull him out of dive kick or demon flip throw.
EX Soul Spiral will beat demon flip palm/O/S sweep. (i.e. dont backdash). Akuma will mostly go for this option since Air grab is so unsafe on whiff.

Be super careful about block strings. Akuma’s 3 frame uppercut and Raging Demon can really put a hurting on Rose’s who like to cancel into HK spiral all day. Fireballs will snuff demon but lose to focus dash. Opposite is true for Spirals.

Also, be less predictable about U2 activation. Akuma can input teleport on obvious wakeup situations and get the hell out of dodge.

Rose’s close MK can hit Akuma out of both versions of Demon, so you can use it to hit him out of Super Demon setups. Must be done pre flash, however.

Rose’s S.MK and S.HK both go over Akuma’s C.MK… and since his S.HK whiffs her crouching, Rose wins the poke war pretty handily. Just toss some well space HK drills to break focus.

Rose eats Tastu->Sweep, so akuma vortex is the #1 threat. If you can minimize the damage taken from it, you should be good to go.

Blanka UPDATED 10/21

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

(VANILLA)

My take:

I don’t even bother trying to stop them from balling. Blocking them conditions them into eating an Ultra later im my experiences. If im at a distance im always SSing with an occasional backdash to keep the distance game going. If they have EX i’ll try to bait them into using it by dashing or doing random S.HP if I know they are charged. I’ll even eat EX balls by SSing for two reasons: to get Ultra and so they arent sitting on EX.

As for either Super or Ultra, depending on distance I either counter Ultra if I have it, SS/EX SS, or backdash SS/EX SS. SS stops either cold and is a simple counter. If they are close(right on you) i’ll try to block low and then ST but the timing can be tricky. You can counter either ball (EX/regular) with Ultra from anywhere on the screen but you do have to be quick.

There’s no safe way for you to punish balls w/o Ultra and a good Blanka will always charge right after and during one ball to have time for another upon landing so its very risky to try to dash and counter. Especially if they have Ultra. I usually just SS but will dash and either slide for a throw attempt or c. mp into SS/Spiral if they dont have Ultra or if I really need to make up some ground.

A Blanka walking forward usually does one of two things: jump or slide. FA can take care of both. I use the threat of FAs to keep them on their toes about sliding. Once you FA punish a couple slides they’ll become very cautious allowing you to SS more freely but you still have to be cautious of being caught mid ss by a jump in. You can also FA jump ins of course but you have to watch for empty jump --> throw. If you FA a jump in and catch them in the air you can forward DC and then tag on a F+HK (this is against anyone).

Blankas also love to crossup which is pretty simple enough to get around if you’re on your toes. Slide is great, dash under is great. Counter ST can work ok since SF4 gives so much leniency in auto-switching reversal directions for you but it’s the riskiest. When going for a counter ST always use the df,df command in order to keep your crouch, keeping your hitbox lower.

The matchup is a real chess match IMO but I do think it’s pretty even.

here on the Blanka matchup. Look above on some Rufus tips.

Don’t be afraid of Blanka’s U2 at all. You never have a reason to use U2 on Blanka since U1 punishes most of his nonsense.

-If Blanka decides to do anti-ground U2 from full screen, just hold u/f during the freeze and U1 when you hit the ground.

-If he does a anti-ground U2 in your face, just do U1. You can actually do U1 once blanka flips in the air before the first slam IIRC so you won’t be forced to jump. Hit up practice and test it out as it’s bee awhile since i’ve even fought a U2 blanka.

-Any time i’ve really seen anti-Air U2 is whenever someone jump on Blanka’s wakeup. So just pay attention to meter and safe jump (or jump a bit out of his range) to bait it. if you have meter, punish with U1.
.

[Renegade]

Boxer

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Cammy

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Chun Li

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Claw

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

[Renegade]

Cody

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Dan

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

DeeJay

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Dhalsim

Spoiler

General Match Score IPW 5.5-4.5 Rose
Basic Strategy
Rose has a lot of options in this matchup, but it can be really hard to get in versus good dhalsims.

At max range, it’s the slow jab fireball see what you do strategy.

His fierce comes out slow at 14 frames, so If you’re quick to match fireballs, you can. Remember that you have 4 more frames total than his at 52 to 48.

Also, Rose gains more super meter than Sim for throwing fireballs, so EX’s are more prevalent.

You CAN use reflect on fireballs, but you have to be smart about it and mix it up. Reflects are much faster than your own fireballs, so Sim can’t easily react to your reflect and punish it.
Upwards reflect will hit him out of Yoga Snipe, and forwards reflecting his Fireball can hit hit stand fierce (not low fierce though).

If he teleports to you, I like using close fierce for where the hitbox is, or C.Fierce b/c of it’s duration. Both are pretty fast moves.

When you do get inside, HK drills are pretty good, as after blocking, Sim’s only 3 Frame move (B+LK), can’t actually combo into anything but super. Just don’t get thrown. And the only thing Sim can interrupt a Drill string with is Super or Ultra.

Mixing up between grabs and Close MK to hit crouch techs or throw attempts is pretty beefy against him since his low short is ass, just don’t get thrown into the corner.

I will focus a lot in this match and build ultra meter, and use orbs to just walk Dhalsim to the corner.

I won’t pretend to be an expert in the matchup or anything, but here are a few things that helped me.

• You can punish his standing fierce with focus attack. His arms withdraw slowly enough that if you time it properly (ideally, letting the buttons go the instant his fists make contact), the FA will hit on the withdraw. If you feel you haven’t timed it properly to score a hit you can at least FADC forward to close the gap.

• Don’t try to out-slide him. His is better. Also, trying to advance with slide is a bad idea, as it can be stuffed fairly easily with the aforementioned standing fierce.

• Don’t try and fireball war with him. If the Sim player is any good, all he’s doing is looking for an opportunity to teleport behind you. On the other hand, if you feel that’s the case, you can play along for one or two fireballs and then backdash on reaction to Yoga Fire in anticipation of a teleport. Luckily, his recovery on Yoga Fire is slow enough that you can usually punish it with EX Soul Spark on reaction. Also, so long as you’re not fullscreen and it’s not jab Yoga Fire that he threw out, you should be able to FADC forward without fear of reprisal.

• If he teleports within jab range and you’re not in block or hit stun, JAB HIM. Don’t get cute. Your main concern should be fending off his attack and throwing off his game, not trying to punish - because nine times out of ten, his attack’s going to come out quicker.

• Space your jump-ins very cautiously. He has a bunch of different ways to stuff them and you could end up eating a Yoga Catastrophe if you’re not careful. If he’s on the ground your best bet is to advance with simple walking, as his standing ranged attacks are slow enough that you can block on reaction - and after blocking such an attack you should have enough time to get off one forward dash before he recovers. Also, if he jumps backwards, it’s okay, even preferable to jump after him - so long as you make sure to stay out of range of his fierce.

• If he throws out Yoga Catastophe seemingly intending to attempt the teleport trap, your course of action is going to depend on where you are on the screen. If the fireball is right in front of you, try to block it as soon as you can, so that you’ll already be blocking when and if he teleports behind you. If you’re at midscreen, it’s a bit of a guessing game - your best bet is probably to just backdash or jump backwards, as if you attempt to leap over the fireball he could very well stuff your jump with standing roundhouse and cause you to fall back onto it. With backdashing it at least puts a little space between you and the fireball and forces him to execute the teleport perfectly. At fullscreen, just backdash, jab out of teleport, and keep backdashing until the fireball disappears.

• I haven’t seen a lot of players use Yoga Shangri-La, but in case you come up against one who picks it, the only advice I can give is to pay particular attention to your spacing when he has meter. Not too difficult to do as it’s a comparatively precise window in which you need to be standing for it to hit, but if he throws it out and you feel it’s going to hit, you should have time to EX Spiral out of there before he grabs you. .

… you have to watch for the stronger and slower limbs to focus dash (parry) since if anything, you won’t be at a frame disadvantage for doing so. Focusing the lighter attacks, namely s.LK, is pretty much impossible. but when he uses s.MP, c.MP, s.MK, etc… that’s your invitation to the party as long as you’re quick to dash. Even Yoga Sniper is easily focus able, and most likely punishable.

Dhalsim usually wants to keep further from you than Rose would want to keep from a character she can out range. So you gotta prevent him from making that space, be it a teleport, backdash, or back jump + attack/teleport. Another trick they use is slide in to back throw.

There have been rare instances in which a Dhalsim player has cornered me successfully using light ranged attacks after a backthrow, with some MK/LK slide incorporated, but not necessarily to attack, as a means to maintain closer range and pressure. At the time I didn’t know how to deal with it, but in hindsight it probably would’ve been best to use EX spiral, possibly s.HK, possibly LP spark. I was just too mindfucked to try any sort of escape or counter

[Renegade]

Dictator

Spoiler

General Match Score 4-6 Bison
My Opinion 4-6 Bison
Basic Strategy
Ugh. This match sucks. Bison has great pokes like Rose, is more mobile, controls the ground with intelligent scissors loops and crushers, and does well in the air with J.MP and Headstomps.

1. Psycho punisher eats Rose FBs for lunch. Way too laggy
2. EX Crusher Eats Orbs, and EX Scissors Ignores them completely (will get hit if you block)
3. C.LK of bison is a really great punisher for unsafe drills, so watch your spacing.

In regards to getting out of Scissor Traps…

A s.mk after the second iteration will get u out every time.

This is b.c S.MK is airborne?

Bison can’t actually be too S.HK happy here, because many of Rose pokes beat it (C.MP, C.MK, slide, godlike footsies with s.HK or s.HP lol), so he’ll have to go his C.MK. You’re S.MK and S.HK will go over it.

Be really careful about your slide/drill usage, b/c if you do an slightly unsafe slide, it allows bison to have a charge for C.LK xx scissors. Try to backdash after them if possible, if if you’re feeling frisky, S.MK.

Obviously, you can EX soul throw Headstomp followup and Devil’s Reverse, but no bison is going to go for the hit.

If bison does random Psycho Punisher, Activate orbs and jump.

Against Wakeup Crossup /not Cross up Psycho Punisher, I’ve tried ways to put in an input that got either Ultra 2 or EX Soul Spiral… but had inconclusive results. Rose’s move priorities are all out of whack. However, I did come up w/ some solutions for EX reflect problems.

Dudley

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

El Fuerte

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

E.Honda

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

[Renegade]

Fei Long, Updated

Spoiler

General Match Score5-5
Basic Strategy

-4 for the LK version. -2 for MK. 0 for HK and EX. Long story short, don’t bother trying to punish his CW unless he whiffs.

Don’t even block chicken wing unless it’s LK in which you punish with a cr. lp Soul Spiral.

cr. hp beats ALL chicken wings clean.

ST beats chicken wing but I guess thats only against fei’s who don’t space properly.

Gen

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Gouken

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Guile Updated 10/21

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy
Jae’s comment:

this match-up is all about patience and guessing. you also need to stay put on the ground. a good guile player will change the version of his booms so you should anticipate when he does or when he wants you to reflect them as a bait. don’t use sparks unless its ex to hit or to push them back. you also need to build meter but its better off to reflect them to keep guile under his own pressure.
My comment:

You have to be patient, and let him come to you. You build meter a lot quicker with Soul Sparks, rather than the Guile player with Sonic Booms. If both of you keep playing the projectile game, Rose can win this alone. Also, poking a lot to bait out his uppercut works really well. His uppercut has poor recovery, and it’s really easy to punish. Don’t try to come to him, because he’s going to have anti-airs ready if you do so. If you do approach, do so through the ground. Use reflect and her slide to close in.
Eae’s comment:

Also remember that pretty much every drill (and slide) that doesn’t hit with the very tip is unsafe against Guile, since his flash kicks have crazy horizontal range (if you try to bait one at close range and backdash, you’ll find out it can hit you despite the backdash). On the other hand, he’s completely defenseless against crossups, even badly spaced ones. And you can slide under sonic booms at ranges where the slide hits Guile.

Actually U2 is pretty useful against guile. It gives you some breathing room against corner sonic boom lockdown and pressure strings.

Another way to use it is to activate as a slow boom is coming, MP reflect… and follow it in. Great Pressure setup. I do the same thing against Dhalsim.

[Renegade]

Guy

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Rose Strategies and Match-ups

I actually took a break from Makoto this weekend to play some Rose lol.

Guy: His s.mp and c.mp does tend to lead into run/stop shenanigans on block, but outside of that you’ll beat him in a footsie battle and it seems like he’ll have alot of trouble getting in on her. Satelitte isn’t really valuable in this matchup so I would use Illusion Spark to limit jumping/running options like Luffy said. His slide is safe at max range, and if you try to poke him his EX hurricane will beat all your attacks…it will be his primary way of getting in more than likely. I’ll be updating some stuff once I look at his frame data.

Hakan

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Ibuki

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Juri

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

[Renegade]

Ken

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Makoto

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Rose

Spoiler

General Match Score
hmm… 5/5??
Basic Strategy
Rose Ball!

Rufus

Spoiler

General Match Score4-6
My opinion: 3-7
Basic Strategy
Ugh. This match sucks ass.

Let’s get the basics out of the way.
Ultra selection.

Ultra 1 is a bit better at stopping Rufus from doing stupid jump angles w/ dive kicks, as well as dumb messiahs. It’s also the only thing that’ll pull Rufus out of Big Bang Typhoon, preventing a chip death. However, it’s not as good at just making sure Rufus gets off you.

U2 is good for defensive purposes, but Big Bang Typhoon ignores them completely, and EX Galactic Tornado Eats them up. Not to mention EX messiah is still a threat with them on.

Rufus can go either way too. If he wants to punish you for doing stupid shit, Big Bang Typhoon is great. It’ll punish any block string canceled into fireball or spiral… any fireball half screen… as well as cross ups and jump ins…
It’ll also chip her to death w/ no counter.

On the other hand, if he thinks he’ll be able to land his hits, space opera symphony is never a bad choice. Rufus will get his hits in this match.

How to stop Rufus?

Well, first you have to properly anti air poorly spaced dive kicks. Your options can include, EX soul throw, S.MP, S.HP, C.HP, EX Soul Spiral, J.HK, J.HP. That’s why this match is hard.

Your pokes are generally better, but you have to prove you can anti air dive kicks before he’ll stay on the ground for any length of time.

Rufus C.HP is punishable by EX Soul Spiral at any distance closer than super max range.

Post Messiah Kick Mixups: Soul Throw Grabs HK ender, EX Soul Spiral beats the other two and avoids HK ender.

O/S Crouch Tech with C.HP is your best friend. this is really just mashing LP+LK and C.HP at the same time. You’ll either get throw tech or C.HP. Helps tremendously on dive kick/ throw mixups. If they start blocking and punishing the C.HP, then cancel it into something.

O/S C.Jab, C.Jab/Sweep is actually great on rufus’ wakeup. If properly spaced, it’ll snag rufus’ backdash, and his messiah kick will fly over your head!

[Renegade]

Ryu

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Sagat

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Sakura

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Seth

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

[Renegade]

T. Hawk

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

Rose Strategies and Match-ups

T.Hawk:
-You would think Illusion Spark would be great against Condor dives, but it ends up hitting Rose on top of the head and stuffing/trading more often than not. Fortunately Soul Throw works really well against his jumpins.
-I haven’t had a chance to try it yet, but I think she can slide/c.mk under Spires. If that’s the case, we have a really good defense against it, since that’s a primary way to get in against zoners. Also EX Spire can be stuffed on startup.
-Unfortunately the Hawk I played wasn’t great at footsies so I don’t know if she has the advantage there(I would assume he gives her some problems), but he can’t push you in the corner like Gief can since he can’t really combo into anything.

Zangief

Spoiler

General Match Score
Basic Strategy

[Renegade]

End Reserve. Feel Free to post.

IN EACH POST: Try to keep your shit meaningful.

Don’t just say: Rose beats Guy 7-3…

EXPLAIN what part of the matchup is in rose’s favor/disfavor. Punishments, pokes, setups.
Providing Videos of said matchup would also help.

Also, try to shoot for the highest level of play possible.

DO NOT SAY: Rose owns Ken free because the Illusion Spark can punish blocked DP.

SAY: Ken has a hard time getting past Rose’s pokes, (a combination of C.LK, S.MK, C.MP, S.RH) but she has a hard time mounting a comeback because Ken’s 3 Frame DP stops safe jumps, cross ups, punishes HK drill on block, and interrupts block strings. Ken’s Ultra 2 blows through fireballs at a huge range. Rose’s slide is key, as it will stuff startup of Ken’s F+MK and slide under fireballs.

[Inebro_the_Amazing]

I can’t wait to see this take off.
Nice work Renegade.
Especially making sure to include mirror matches.
How else will I learn to beat up me?

[Saqs]

I can’t wait to see this take off.
Nice work Renegade.
Especially making sure to include mirror matches.
How else will I learn to beat up me?

Don’t feel bad. I will forever suck at Rose mirrors.

Most of the strats for the Vanilla characters still apply so the good stuff from there can be ctrl c/v’d.

[Shin_Oni]

I’m in the same boat with “suck at mirror matches”. On that note, just what is “ideal” during Rose mirrors?

[Saqs]

I’m in the same boat with “suck at mirror matches”. On that note, just what is “ideal” during Rose mirrors?

Intelligent Randomness.

[Vince34]

Well i can start off with cody since i been playing a friend who does very well with him. My terminology may be off so someone can clean it up if posted.

U2 all the way for this match up.

I noticed cody can get some easy stun with his bnb combos so be on the look out for that.

When cody is knocked down and doesnt have a ex bar or ultra, pressure the hell out of him. Mix up of a slide or st. mk. is great as he wakes up. Can get a easy grab on him or combo.

Cody has a arch jump similar to Gens old one in SF4, so his cross up acts like gens old one. If ya played a lot of gens in vanilla you will know what i mean. So when rose is knocked down, expect cody to jump overhead. So u2 is great for this.

Careful on codys fake rocks, he can bate you into jumping in for a ultra.

Still testing but when i block codys DP (uppcut whirl wind) i can only sweep him due to pushing me back to far for a spiral or fireball. I experimented with a U1 on a block whirlwind, but didnt catch.

Last thing i can think of is his knife, dont see many go for it, but when i do they tend to spam it or try to get you in a block stun for a grab etc…

Wel thats what i know so far, hope its understandable lol.

[eae]

Instead of that ancient matchup chart we could start by referring to this: http://iplaywinner.com/news/2010/5/17/update-iplaywinner-super-street-fighter-4-may-2010-tier-list.html

4 vs Abel, Sagat, Boxer, Seth
4.5 vs Ryu
5.5 vs Dhalsim
6 vs Hakan Makoto Sakura Dan
5 vs anyone else

Seems legit.

[Renegade]

Eh. I don’t think she doesn’t that bad against Sagat and Abel. Abel is all about abusing drills and Close MK all day.

Sagat got helped out alot by the easier reflects. However U2 is pretty scary.

Bison/Rufus/Balrog are my worst matchups.

She beats Guile, DeeJay, Gouken as well.

[eae]

Actually I think the claim that the list I posted was created with the contribution of Justin Wong, John Choi etc. is probably bullshit, I’d guess they just extrapolated opinions expressed somewhere else by those players and used them to compile the list

[Inebro_the_Amazing]

Intelligent Randomness.

Real talk.
More often then not, it turns into a real life mirror match for me.
Especially early on in the rounds. More towards the end things start to get mixed up, but on the outset it’s pretty normal for me and evil rose (clone, whatever) bounce off each other after pulling the same shit.