I wouldnt go the route of trying to use it like a reversal purposely, but i do know what you mean as it has hit ppl on the many times that i fluffed up the U2 input. Still i wouldnt recommend it for reversing. However It does warrant more use in a fireball war now because ppl either get hit buy part/the whole projectile, use a ex. meter to cancle out there own fireball or are forced block,jump,n.jump which allows rose to advance and if your in slide range you get a nice frame trap.
Hey thanks Luffy.
Do you ever do a max range spiral on their wake up? I feel like I get some mileage out of that, especially against focus > back-dashers.
I never thought about the walk back st.HK, that sounds like it might just work pretty often. Is the setup designed to trick them into coming forward right into your long-range attack?
I really need to use st.HK more often, and use it better. I have to learn the exact range by heart so I can space it properly. Right now, I’m not spacing it well so I always trade or get countered when I go to do it.
Is it just me or is a lot of Rose’s game about spacing pretty precisely to make sure you hit moves at their very tip? Rose is so nasty from mid range but only if you truly know your normals’ exact ranges cold…
So…no matchup advice vs gief or honda? Soul throw gets stuffed by both of their air normals pretty easily. Ultra 1 seems to be a better choice for gief.
c.hp all of giefs jump ins. Just watch your spacing. late ex soul throw also.
Honda match up sucks ass unless the Honda player sucks at walk up jab xx hands. Otherwise he’s probably a chronic jumper. c.hp works well on those as well.
I am complete ass against gief and thawk. I’m so bad at keeping them out.
I think both ultra’s have its place vs Gief, especially if what I heard about his jump getting worse is true(haven’t played a Super Gief yet) and it’s easier to hit him with Illusion Spark in the air. But Satellite is REALLY important once you get knocked down.
As far as Honda goes, c.hp works great if you’re directly under him, but otherwise his j.mp tends to stuff it out. I usually use slides to hit him when he lands or go underneath him if my angles are off.
…And I swore you couldn’t do this in Vanilla, but you can punish fierce headbutt with reversal EX Spiral.
Oh crazy you mention that, I was actually testing this out yesterday. I had mixed results. Sometimes it punishes, sometimes it’s blocked. So I guess that means it’s space dependent, which is too bad.
Also I tested Cammy’s cannon spike, and I don’t know if this was possible in SF4, but on block it’s consistently punished with spiral. I used to think it was relatively safe since I, by default, would consider Rose’s normals to try punishing things. I need to pay more attention to frame data.
When I tested punishing headbutt it was open field, so it should work all the time as long as it’s on reversal timing. It may make a difference if you block it standing or ducking since the timing is kinda tight. Anyway I’ll check it again to make sure.
As far as punishing Cannon Spikes, just dash in on block and you’ll be able to punish with c.hp. At the very least, You can Piede her on the way down and save meter.
It’s all about “just the tip baby”
Rose has thorns. Either you prick them, or you stick something out and they possibly prick themselves.
I agree, Rose is totally about spacing and knowing the exact range on your moves.
I am noticing this more with her than any other character I have played as.
I got destroyed by a dhalsim in ranked twice today. At first I tried to rush him but he was way too strong and stuffed everything. Next time I tried to turtle and time my attacks but he still avoided everything. He always knows when to slide and when to teleport and his execution was just too good. I sent him a message after asking how the hell am I supposed to get in and he said focus and timed attacks. I need more info than that.
lost to a dhalsim in a tournament yesterday, so I am looking to get better at the matchup too.
I won’t pretend to be an expert in the matchup or anything, but here are a few things that helped me.
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You can punish his standing fierce with focus attack. His arms withdraw slowly enough that if you time it properly (ideally, letting the buttons go the instant his fists make contact), the FA will hit on the withdraw. If you feel you haven’t timed it properly to score a hit you can at least FADC forward to close the gap.
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Don’t try to out-slide him. His is better. Also, trying to advance with slide is a bad idea, as it can be stuffed fairly easily with the aforementioned standing fierce.
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Don’t try and fireball war with him. If the Sim player is any good, all he’s doing is looking for an opportunity to teleport behind you. On the other hand, if you feel that’s the case, you can play along for one or two fireballs and then backdash on reaction to Yoga Fire in anticipation of a teleport. Luckily, his recovery on Yoga Fire is slow enough that you can usually punish it with EX Soul Spark on reaction. Also, so long as you’re not fullscreen and it’s not jab Yoga Fire that he threw out, you should be able to FADC forward without fear of reprisal.
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If he teleports within jab range and you’re not in block or hit stun, JAB HIM. Don’t get cute. Your main concern should be fending off his attack and throwing off his game, not trying to punish - because nine times out of ten, his attack’s going to come out quicker.
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Space your jump-ins very cautiously. He has a bunch of different ways to stuff them and you could end up eating a Yoga Catastrophe if you’re not careful. If he’s on the ground your best bet is to advance with simple walking, as his standing ranged attacks are slow enough that you can block on reaction - and after blocking such an attack you should have enough time to get off one forward dash before he recovers. Also, if he jumps backwards, it’s okay, even preferable to jump after him - so long as you make sure to stay out of range of his fierce.
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If he throws out Yoga Catastophe seemingly intending to attempt the teleport trap, your course of action is going to depend on where you are on the screen. If the fireball is right in front of you, try to block it as soon as you can, so that you’ll already be blocking when and if he teleports behind you. If you’re at midscreen, it’s a bit of a guessing game - your best bet is probably to just backdash or jump backwards, as if you attempt to leap over the fireball he could very well stuff your jump with standing roundhouse and cause you to fall back onto it. With backdashing it at least puts a little space between you and the fireball and forces him to execute the teleport perfectly. At fullscreen, just backdash, jab out of teleport, and keep backdashing until the fireball disappears.
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I haven’t seen a lot of players use Yoga Shangri-La, but in case you come up against one who picks it, the only advice I can give is to pay particular attention to your spacing when he has meter. Not too difficult to do as it’s a comparatively precise window in which you need to be standing for it to hit, but if he throws it out and you feel it’s going to hit, you should have time to EX Spiral out of there before he grabs you.
Like I said, this is just stuff that’s worked for me, so I’m sure somebody out there has better advice than what I have to offer.
Well I play a little Dhalsim, so that’s actually not terrible advice. It would be miraculous if a Dhalsim player beat anybody using nothing but light attacks, near or far. Since this impossibility is inherent in Dhalsim’s design, you have to watch for the stronger and slower limbs to focus dash (parry) since if anything, you won’t be at a frame disadvantage for doing so. Focusing the lighter attacks, namely s.LK, is pretty much impossible. but when he uses s.MP, c.MP, s.MK, etc… that’s your invitation to the party as long as you’re quick to dash. Even Yoga Sniper is easily focus able, and most likely punishable.
Dhalsim usually wants to keep further from you than Rose would want to keep from a character she can out range. So you gotta prevent him from making that space, be it a teleport, backdash, or back jump + attack/teleport. Another trick they use is slide in to back throw.
There have been rare instances in which a Dhalsim player has cornered me successfully using light ranged attacks after a backthrow, with some MK/LK slide incorporated, but not necessarily to attack, as a means to maintain closer range and pressure. At the time I didn’t know how to deal with it, but in hindsight it probably would’ve been best to use EX spiral, possibly s.HK, possibly LP spark. I was just too mindfucked to try any sort of escape or counter
Eh… well I can’t, they have around 10 or 12 frames of startup and my reaction time is about 200 ms
vs Hawk:
Lately I’ve been using j.HP a lot on this matchup; it seems to beat his dives cleanly. I think I’ve gotten a trade once, as opposed to c.HP which trades/gets beaten most of the time, and Soul Throw just straight getting beaten unless its EX. Now admittedly, I’ve been playing online, and I think it may be possible for Hawk to bait this with a low/early dive, then punish my j.HP when I land. Having said that, Hawk’s jump is pretty floaty, so its easy enough to just do this on reaction when its too late for him to do this.
So basically, I spark from fullscreen to force him to come at me from the air, then beat him there with j.HP.
I’m also having trouble with Dhalsim. Not so much the RO/DH specific matchup, but just I fight him so rarely that I have no idea how to fight him, with any character. Advice in this thread seems like it should work though.
EDIT:
I was playing around in training mode last night, and it seems like any version of Soul Throw cleanly beats Hawk’s dive. Not sure why I haven’t had any luck with that in matches, but I will try it more now and see how well it works.
Dives seem to be punishable on block by Super, EX Spark, EX Drill (I’ve had mixed success with regular drills). Air Dives seem to be crouch blockable? So no need to react and stand-block low ones.
Ok, I thought it was just my Makoto who got stuffed by Viper players, but I seem to find there’s more and more players who twitch her cancels to the point it becomes irritating not knowing which way she’s going. Not to mention being backed into a corner with her Thunder Knuckles. >_<
Help?
Knock her down before she knocks you down. Viper has crappy wake up. Dash into her, because EX Seismo (when timed right) misses Rose’s forward dash because of the few frames where Rose is in the air. On her wake up, cross her up if she doesn’t have ultra, or pressure her w/ sc. mk and all she can do is block or HP thunder knuckle, which I believe is slow enough to block if sc. mk is a meaty one. 
Don’t get hit with her fierce. That does a lot of stun and just don’t get hit with Ultra, but that’s with every match up. Getting hit w/ that U1 hurts like a dog biting your crotch :(.
Ryu.
What do I do?