Ya i’m on the Smashboards hub (as well as the site,look at my signature…) I also heard that not much ppl were on goforbroke…but i’ll still go on it
yeah goforbroke is kinda dead which is sad.
im trying to D/L some Ken vids right now. I’d never heard of him but he gets nut hugged all day on the smash hub so i wanna see for myself.
Ya supposedly he’s the best in the US:wow:
Well, he took 1st at the tournament with all of Japan’s best players, so you could say he’s best in the world, but you’ll find a lot of people with some more disagreeable opinions of him.
Being good at Smash sure doesn’t seem to help his social life, as far as I can tell.
-Syn
ok sorry I’m a month late on this lol, as a tourney peach player I figure I’ll answer these questions.
First of all, you seem to be missing the point of float cancelling, or not understanding what it is. Yes, by holding down and pressing x you can start her float animation at any time, but float cancelling is referring to the cancelling of lag on aerial attacks. If you start an attack while floating, the attack no longer has any landing animation (this of course only refers to the A moves in the air - up down forward back or neutral). The upshot of this is if you use a move that naturally has a lot of lag, like her forward air, while floating you can completely cancel its lag by hitting the ground when you let go of your float.
Simple explanation: Hover a bit above the ground. Hold forward, hit A. let go of x to stop hovering. when you touch the ground, you’ll have your normal landing animation instead of attack landing animation and can instantly start another attack while on the ground.
For her “better” attacks, there are 4 that you should make your primary focus, at least initially (once you get good, you can make at least some use out of many of her attacks). Her downsmash is brutally punishing to mediocre players, though at higher levels its effectiveness is greatly diminished. Her neutral aerial (nair, just hit a in the air without any direction) has extremely good priority and speed, along with a good trajectory to send the victim. That’s a good one to “spam”. Her running attack, while punishable, is also very useful, as are her turnips.
Peach doesn’t really have all that many guaranteed combos like most characters do. While she has a basic chain throw against space animals at low damage, in most cases peach has to follow the opponent’s DI and go for a followup when the opponent is vulnerable. You could try to combo her down aerial into another aerial while floating, or float cancel an attack followed by a ground attack, but really that’s just basic stuff.
The reason the C-stick is reccomended for turnip throwing is that you actually are smash throwing the item. at any time there are lots of ways to throw items. You can just hit the z button and drop it behind you. you can hit a to throw it. you can smash forward on the control stick while hitting a (which is identical to hitting that direction on the c-stick) to smash throw it. there’s also the up and down throws and smash up throw, the running throw, and different throws from the air… but the bottom line is the c-stick or smash throw will get a bit more distance than the standard ground throw which is why it’s usually preferred.
catching stuff thrown at you just requires very good timing (depends on the character and the item in question). on the ground, you hit A. in the air, you hit z. there’s really no trick to this, just the timing of knowing exactly when to press it.
as for wavedashing, its an interesting little trick with the landing animation. there’s a special sliding thing that characters do when they air dodge diagonally into the ground. for peach it’s very minimal, but it can be a substantial difference for some characters. basically, people hit the jump button and before their character leaves the ground the air dodge diagonally down, effectively instantly sliding. this can be repeaded very quickly, and for many characters its a fast way to control your moving around. for peach, with one of the game’s worst wavedashes, it has very minimal use - you’re mostly limited to wavedashing backwards out of the way of an attack and rushing back in for a retalitory strike.
hope that helped.
Was that Kirby Cheat a glitch vid because some of those combos didn’t seem possible, because they didn’t even look stunned. I loved the ti anyways and I loved the Ol’ School Kirby footage…OMNIGAMER PLZ POST SSB64 MATCH VIDS!!! :crybaby:
There are a few where they weren’t stunned the whole way through, but meh. I didn’t want to record any more >_<
SSBM combo vids have to different from other fighter combo vids just because there’s no “absolute” combos. A lot of combos can be broken by correct DI or getting the techs in, making it difficult to compile a bunch of inescapable combos. So what you get are two different versions of combos: escapeable combos and incomplete combos. Escapable combos are what I just described above. Incomplete combos are several short chains that end between themselves, but because of other factors (sheild size, shield strength, hitbox placement, reaction speed, etc.) can often be carried out regardless.
Hey peeps, i didn’t read any of the replies, since i assume it has nothing to do with my questions. My questions are regarding SuperSmashBrothers 1 of course, not 2 but 1.
-What’s the Tier List for SSB1?
-What’s the best way to grab somebody(this kid i play against, he grabs then hold me for a couple secs then throw me) . Does this do more damage then just grab then throw?
-Any of you guys know any links to help me get good at SSB1, such as links containing combos and strategies? Thx in advance all.
Hey peeps. I have some questions concering SSB1… not 2(melee).
What’s the tier list?
What’s the best way to grab your opponent? What i mean is fast and effective. I can’t seem to grab my opponent fast enough. They always grab me first then they hold me for 2 secs then throw me. Does that do more damage? If so, how do i do it?
Any of you guys know any links for SSB1 not melee that contain combos and strats? I did several searches, i could only find strats for SSBM melee(2) only, but not for 1 :(. Thx in advance peeps. :pleased:
I’m not sure of the exact tier list, but I do know that Pika and Kirby were Top Tier, with Ness and Jiggs slightly behind. Grabbing an opponent and simply holding them does nothing, to my knowledge.
If you’re looking for videos, anything with Isai will work. He’s on a completely different level from anybody else in the world, it seems (the top Japanese SSB64 players could only get him down to 2 stock [and even then, only rarely so] supposedly, and never actually beat him). For most of his SSB64 vids, he’ll go by Malva00, so search that and you may get some better results. If not, I can send some through AIM.
Hey everyone,
I just picked this game up after I heard it was phenomonal; right now I am just getting the feel for the controls.
I was just wondering if anyone can give me any beginner’s tips?
I’m not too concerned about teirs; I like to figure that out for myself.
But if anyone can provide some pointers or information that is good to know, I would greatly appreciate it.
Thanks.
Make SSB64 vids NOW!!!:crybaby:
Anyways grabbing your opponent for a long time does nothing, your friend just likes wasting time.:razzy:
The tier list is basically this:
Top: Pikachu, Kirby, Isai
2nd Tier: Fox, Captain Falcon, Ness
3rd Tier: Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Jigglypuff
Crap: Samus, Link, DK
What’s funny is that Malva/Isai is very active on the SSB64 boards, he loves the game more than SSBM. (For good reason, it has true juggles/combos.
) Go to Smashboards .com in the Smash Arena section for a nice combo vid!:tup:
O, ok. Thx man. Do you guys know where i can get some SSB N64 but not melee vids? Combos and tourny matches. Thx in advance.
Speaking of SSB64, Isai just made a single player mode Very Hard No-Damage Clear video. Craziest thing I’ve seen. He actually does the equivalent to shinewaves in much of the matches, getting the comps dead in just a few seconds. Ridiculous stuff. I’ll try to post the link if I can find it again.
i got a friend that met ken once.
OMG DID HE TOUCH HIM!??!?
-Syn
That would be sick if you could find that link…This I gotta see:wow:
The History of Smash
This post was made by SmashBrosPro on SWF. He made the post a few weeks ago, but I find it to be the most fascinating read on smashboards today by far:
**"At one point and time someone was also trying to collect the history of the evolution of the game. I can help a little, but they say the first thing to go with age is memory. I would also like to apologize in advance if I screw up the name of a stage as I don’t own a GC at the moment.
Wavedashing was “invented” by a Luigi player (whose name sadly escapes me) from California and yes its discovery was an accident. This of course makes sense since I’m sure people had done it before on accident (I’ve even seen the computer do it a handful of times), but with Luigi it is by far the most noticeable. I don’t remember the exact story, but I think it involved trying to quick item catch (back then California was by far the most vehement pro item tournament scene) as doing the jump into the air/dodge/catch was a safer method than standing catching, but Luigi’s regular jump left him open to nasty counters thus the need for the short jumping. Again it’s a bit fuzzy, but the move did catch on amazingly fast with every player trying to add it to their repertoire. Ironically the move really didn’t become absolutely necessary for top level competition for months down the line.
As far as an evolution of tactics before wavedashing it was pretty advanced since people largely carried over their skills from the original smashbrothers. Things like L canceling, short jumping, shield canceling, and fast falling were all critical in the previous game so the community hit the ground running at that point.
There were a few major changes though in game dynamics from the first game. First and foremost was grabbing was strongly reduced in effectiveness. Players saw that grabs, in particular running grabs, where a far less viable means of KO, the % damage it inflicted was fairly marginal, and particularly at low damages it didn’t set opponents up as nicely into combos (a common example was how characters like Fox and Sheik’s dash attack flowed so nicely into their aerial kill moves). So dash grabs saw a decent decline in usage, particularly in offensive minded players. The result favored defensive players. They could shield grab with increased safety. Ironically this didn’t immediately lead players into countering with more dash grabs, but rather with an emphasis on spacing moves (like Marth’s aerial forward A) and “cross ups” (a nearly forgotten move where you time your dash attack to carry over to your opponents other side of the shield). The tournament scene remained this way until Ken started really started abusing dash grabs, “circle dashing” (dashing back and forth to goad your opponent into making an attack and then dashing in for the grab, not to be confused with “dash dancing” as wavedashing hadn’t become effective yet), and grab combos, but this didn’t happen until TG3. Also, with the removal of devastating spike moves from SSB there was a much greater emphasis on edge guarding and edge hogging. I also think it is crucial to emphasis the effect the Japanese competitive tournament had on SSBM development in America. It was by all accounts well beyond the American scene and with videos of matching for the first time becoming available players were able to improve in large part from imitation.
For those who don’t know, TG is “Tournament Go” and is a California tournament which was hosted by Matt D (I hope I didn’t goof his name, especially since he put me up for the weekend at TG3). This was not the first SSBM tournament or the biggest for that matter, but it was the first to attract extensive outofstaters and players from overseas. TG 2 saw the first outofstaters, but TG 3 was when it really became the Markey tournament in the country with over thirty players coming from all parts of the world (Mr. Silver made the trip all the way from Europe). It also set up TG 4 which was the first tournament to actually attract a top notch Japanese player (Captain Jack).
A quick side note on the evolution of the tournament scene:
There were essentially two major tournament format feuds: East Coast (primarily New York) versus West Coast (primarily California). It was pretty vicious for a while there and they had pretty vehement disagreements on the proper format for running a tournament.
West Coast tournament primary settings:
Pro items: The drop running ran from Low to Medium High. Most of the items were kept. I think the only thing dropped at first major healing items (heart and tomato). The argument for keeping items was that they involved skill in using and catching, discouraged camping since the aggressive player would have access to more item drop spots, and that the random factor was very small, particularly if character kept a mental check list of the item drops in various stages and were careful with their move spamming (the example given was Dr. Mario abusing his pills in front of an item dropping point and crying randomness when a bomb drops in front of his pill). This argument was highly controversial.
Best of 3 matches with low stock: The number of stock varied, but it gravitated mainly between 3 and 4. The items were progressively cut back, until eventually going to a no item policy.
Pro Stage Variety: At first all stages where included with the stage being random for the first match and then the loser allowed to pick a “counter” stage. This too was gradually cut back with stages that lent themselves to running away like Hyrule and Mushroom Kingdom being cut out. This was likewise validated by the belief that unique stages represented an essential flavor of SSBM and that avoiding and using stage hazards was another aspect of skill. They eventually went to a “neutral” stage for the first match with it being random out of a field of 6-8 stages.
Character counterpicking: Loser was also allowed to choose a counter character with winner having to maintain his pick.
Time limit: This wasn’t introduced until TG 3 and was highly controversial at the time. It was enacted to force action, but many feared it would lead to characters like Fox getting chip damage with their projectiles and running away for the rest of the timer.
Seeding: This was based on how players did in previous TGs and was also highly criticized since it gave advantage to local players who could in each TG without travel expense and did not factor in placing from other tournaments. It also made it slightly more likely that people would face members of their own crew in the opening rounds.
Duel Elimination
East Coast tournament settings:
No items: Items were completely thrown out as random factors and played into the East Coast’s attempt to create an almost minimalist and “pure” experience. They pointed to how a character having a bat dropped infront of them or pulling a legendary from a pokeball was given a huge advantage with little skill of his own.
One match high stock: The big New York tournament played with 10 stock, which was highly controversial. It was argued that this not only illiminated randomness through fluke suicides, but that it forced opponents to adjust to their opponents strategy and improvise on the go.
One Stage: Final Desitination was the only stage available. It was picked because it was felt to best incorporate all the aspects of the game. It had edges, thus allowing edge guarding. It was about equally difficult to KO an opponent from above or the sides (as say with Yoshi Story where falco can shine combo you off the top of the stage with no damage).
One Character: The argument was that being able to counter pick an opponent shouldn’t give you a free victory. This was also highly controversial.
Ultimately despite the superior numbers of the early New York Tournaments (they were the first to top 50) the common consensus among the disinterested community was that the West Coast format had come out on top. However, in retrospect it was really more of a draw with major aspects of both systems being incorporated. A lot of changes also came from other places in the country. “Dave’s stupid rule” was put to use in the first major tournament in MOAST (a Texas tournament), which prevented counterpicking the same stage you got on random (though Chicago tournaments were the first to use it, even before it was named by Dave, but that so goes Hollywood). Ohio was the first to modify the counter picking, with the loser picking the stage, winner having the option to repick a character, and then the loser being able to repick his character. The rest of the country also turned off items and drastically cut back stages despite its maintained popularity in California.
Here is a fairly accurate of early tier lists:
- Sheik. There was a point where a lot of people thought Sheik was unbalanced to the point of potentially ruining the game as she could be played effectively offensively or defensively. TG 2 was won by a (largely) turtling Sheik.
- Fox. A bit of anxiety on just where he ranked. Once people adapted to the timing in interrupting his comeback there was a lot of anxiety that he was too easy a character to exploit. Matt D is credited as the first person to actively use Fox’s reflector as a pseudo spike (“shine spike”). The original fox also relied a lot more on his aerial flip kick than the modern processors and it wasn’t until a while down the road until the drill into shine combination was discovered. This lead to the idea that Fox was the perfect character in someone had the super human reflexes to fully utilize him.
- Falco. Perhaps the most widely fluctuating character. It took a while for players to realize the potential of his spike as a ground attack. In some places like California, Minnesota, and Washington you saw Falco as one of the most popular characters, while in places like the Midwest he was much less prominent at first. Among doubters there was the beliefs that he just too punishable for the slightest mistake. Characters like Peach could do 80% damage combos and up and him.
- Marth. Another character that was popular in some regions like the Midwest, but not really touched in places like the West Coast. Critics argued that his comeback was one of the worst in the game and that he was too reliant on his smash for kills, but players like Ken and Eduardo continued to win large tournaments. Marth was the character to really bring offensive grabbing back in vogue, particularly due to the almost unfair speed and distance he had as well as how nicely it set up further combos plus that his dash attacks are rather poor.
- ----. There was no real agreement here and it varied wildly from month to month. At first Link was actually one of the most popular characters in very early tournaments, but he quickly disappeared as shield grabbing became less and less effective. Luigi and Mario were both popular characters at the early stages. Peach was fairly unpopular at the beginning, most likely due to her bizarre play style (which Peach enthusiasts like myself believe to be the most unique of any character and demand almost complete dedication to her) but steadily grew, most notably after winning a huge Washington tournament. Captain Falcon saw representation, but there was a fear that he was simply too wild to control effectively. By far the most dramatic example though was Yoshi who saw almost no tournament play in anywhere but Washington, but was hugely popular there with five very skilled Yoshi players traveling down for TG 3. Ness and Jigglypuff were moderately popular and even won a few tournaments (most notably MOAST 2). For a while Jigglypuff actually became one of the more popular tournament characters. Other characters were almost completely unknown until one player would revolutionize the old thoughts. A good example is Eddie’s use of Gannon or Chus (I think) use of the Ice Climbers, though the Ice Climbers really didn’t gain much steam a couple years later. Some characters like Samus were popular at first and then seen as not tournament viable only to be revisited once Isaiah reinvigorated her play style. While these characters never saw wide scale use, you did see the styles of these first players aped in friendlies. It should also be noted that while Bowzer was regarded as the worst character in the game, he also had the most dedicated fan base and while Bowzer didn’t get much respect until a while down the road, it was the early devotees that made his redemption possible.
It’s hard to say exactly when the game became as completely dedicated to speed as you see it today. I would have to say that Ken is probably the largest catalyst. His “dash dancing” dramatically speed up the pace of matches. Before matches were much more measured and planned out. The best counter to “dash dancing” is spamming short jumps. Players certainly knew how to do it, but with the exception of short hopping Falco’s lasers it wasn’t really put to full use. I would say that Eddie was the first to feature a repertoire of almost exclusively short jumping to L canceling. This was what was so revolutionary about how he played Ganon, he could make him fast. Whether or not due to Eddie’s influence, you start to see players like Azen and Ken like wise start abusing quick short jumps with characters like Fox, Sheik, and Marth. However, it was probably Isaiah that showed that every character could benefit dramatically from incorporating quick short hopping with his surprising Samus, DK, and even Kirby. It really lead to the point in which a lot of characters are played dramatically similar. I remember hearing complaints/praise of Azen that said he could play almost every character at a very high level, but he pretty much played them the same. However wavedashing still wasn’t an absolutely vital tournament tool. You would occasionally see “wave dashing”, but outside of people who played Luigi and to a much lesser extent Samus and Marth, it wasn’t used that often. Ironically perhaps the first person to demonstrate it as a possible tournament dominating form was Mike Gs Peach. To my knowledge he was the first player to consistently use wavedashing to such a dominating effect in tournaments. From that point on you start to see people playing remarkably similar to todays player.
As I stated earlier my memory has some gaps. For example I have next to knowledge of the European scene and how it has interacted with the American tournament scene. Im also not particularly well informed about East Coast tournaments. Maybe you can rope one of the EC old timers in. Anyways I hope that answers some of your questions."**
You can find the rest of the thread at this link:
-Syn
Good stuff, Syn. I came onto the scene right after TG4, so I still don’t know a lot of the earlier politics.
http://files.filefront.com/ssb1pwmv/;4428843;;/fileinfo.html for the video.