I’ve lately been running into problems against a few Sheik players. I tried to counter them by taking up Jiggly, but it’s an uphill battle.
My main opponent uses most commonly-known advanced techniques with sheik, and is very edge-guard happy. I normally play Falco as my main, but he is fast-falling(into sheiks combo’s) and can’t recover, in the history of ever.
Can anyone offer me any knowledge, techniques, combos etc, or any names for Vids of effective vs. sheik strats? Any help is highly appreciated.
Jigglypuff is actually countered by Sheik. Sheik’s fair (forward aerial) goes through Jiggly’s WoP (Wall of Pain, spamming fair or bair (backwards aerial)). Also, her fair will KO Jiggly horizontally. Jiggz can survive forever horizontally otherwise.
Falco should fare well against Sheik. Try Pillaring Sheik (dair (down aerial), L-cancel it, shine, jump, repeat). Also Shirthop Blaster (Blaster is his B-projectile. If you’re in the air when you start it and land before the move is finished, e.g. he shoots and then puts the gun back into its holster, there will be no put-back-into-holster-animation. So just shorthop, shoot, fastfall, land, repeat). Play a hit and run game on big arenas. Also mix up your recovery with airdodging, up + b and forward + b.
For vids, go to “our” DC-hub (ssbdc.no-ip.com I think. Or just type in Super Smash in the public hublist filter). There you can ask for which vids to download or just search for Falco Sheik or Jiggly Sheik.
There’s also www.smashboards.com. Each character has its own section (except for clones, they have joint sections. Clones: Mario/Doctor Mario, MArth/Roy, etc.). There, people discuss things like specific matchups, general good techniques, etc.
I kinda doubt rex knows how to pillar. That sorta takes a while to learn. And jigglypuff sucks unless you know how to use him properly (WoP).
Now i’m assuming the sheik you fight rolls way too much, or he whores out shield grabbing excessively. A lot of people who don’t play competitively get the feeling rolling is really safe, and its especially easy to fall into that trap if you’re someone with a really good roll (sheik). Watch how he plays closely, try to learn where he likes to roll. If you see him hiding in his shield run at him like you’re gonna grab then let the control stick slide to neutral, then smash it down to crouch cancel out of the run, after that you can do a fsmash in the opposite direction to hit him right when hes coming out of the roll.
If hes the shieldgrabby type. Just be careful to never dash attack his shield, and never land right in front of him with an aerial attack.
That’s why I explained each term (although I didn’t explain what L-cancelling was).
Actually, dashcanncelling, which CrashMan is trying to explain, is most effectively done if you dash, then without letting go of the stick slam it downwards and then almost simoultaneously c-stick an fsmash (or in my case, as Peach, a dsmash).
No, the control stick has to go back to neutral before you slam it down, if you try to slam it down from holding left/right it’ll just slide down the side and that won’t crouch. And he probably doesn’t wanna slam the cstick immediatly, he needs to time it so he hits at the vulnerable part. Speed is not the issue in his case.
I’ve been to smash boards, and there isn’t anything already there, so I figured I’d just fish here before making a fresh thread over there for no reason. Plus, this flamewar was getting annoying.
:wonder: Personally I’m a fan of SHL-ing in, WD back, then Fsmashing. Plus- you can only pillar for so long before they figure out how to DI it, or sheik does a nair/fair to inturrupt you.
But, I don’t care about Falco anymore. I’ve been playing falco long enough, and have seen enough vids and techniques already. I’m interested in a -new- anti-sheik character, because so many people play as her, I’d like some fresh moves.
Though, sorry about the Jiggs/Sheik mixup, perhaps I’d read my info wrong. goodbye creditibility
The control stick doesn’t have to be at nuetral first. I as well as many others use Fallen’s described method all the time and get satisfactory results.
Actually, I have just started to learn how to jump effectively with the stick to be able to do other things while in the air, like attacking/smashing. But perhaps I am thinking the wrong way, am I?
The thing about the Falco pillar is that it isn’t mean for dairing into l-cancel into triple shines. It’s meant for a dair into l-cancel into maybe 1 shine (this is unavoidable if the dair hits). And it’s also for dairing - l-cancel - shine so that they can’t shieldgrab you.
It’s much like Peach’s floatcancelled fair (properly spaced) into a slap into maybe a wavedash backwards. An approach that CANNOT be countered if done correctly but if it hits, you might be in for a world of comboing pain.
Also, Falco’s fsmash isn’t a good counter. It’s not even that good a move unless your opponent is already busy doing something really laggy… like a dashattack. You can just shield it and then shieldgrab the Falco OR my favorite Anti-Fsmash thing: Jump out of the shield into a nair.
Spurei (Aki): You cannot smash in the air. That’s a common misconception among… newbies. You do aerial attacks (neutral air, up air, down air, forward air, back air (a.k.a. nair/uair/dair/fair/bair)). It’s all about preference. However, using X and Y for jumping IS easier especially if you’re gonna follow it up with moves.
Just take your time and get used to it. I had major problems using L and R for shielding. Nowadays I often forget to push backwards when shielding in 2D fighters.
Kirby IS a Sheik-counter, or at least the closest thing you can come to a Sheik-counter. High level Sheiks all concurr: “Kirby is our bane”. I don’t know why since I play neither.
Don’t listen to Demon, he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. If you can manage to learn how to do all variations of jumping with the stick (full hops, short hops, jump cancelled dashes etc.) you’ll definitely have at least a slight technical advantage over a good percentage of the community, as for most, it is very hard. I say at least, because the usefulness of jumping with the control stick can vary from character to character (Marth is a glaring example of being perfectly suited to stick jumping only), but in general the control stick >>>>>>> x/y buttons.
I don’t see how jumping with the stick could be better with the exception of jumping out of shines… For pretty much every technique that uses the jump frames to cancel or for attacking in general, it’s no quicker to use the stick and there’s much less room for error. Sliding from the X or Y button to A to counter by jumping out of shield is much simpler, and you can have much better aerial control of just your character by going from X or Y to the c-stick for attacks. Jump-canceled grabs can be much more precise, too. It’s also a bit easier for short hops under high-stress situations. But whatever. I’ve known people that wavedash and such with the control stick (although they tend to ruin their controllers far faster than anybody else) and if you find that the control stick works for you, then go for it.
So what would you all suggest to a person starting out? What should I learn first? I know how to wave dash (not to the fullest extent) shffl things low jump and all the likes…however what can I REALLY do to step up my game? I use Marth and Doc. I’ve been playing for a couple months and feel that I have a slight grasp over the game. But I’m not sure about what to practice with no comp.
The best way to practice, I’ve found, is to just watch some videos. You can find a lot of usefull mind games and general tactics just from watching vids. L-Cancelling is also a big step up in any game if you haven’t mastered it already. An hour or two’s worth of practice and you can have it down pretty well for most characters.
But after you have some ideas, just go into vs (I disapprove of training because of the lack of c-stick) and just put yourself against a level 1 comp. Just practice various combos to your heart’s content, and maybe switch to another character after a while to get a feel for different combos against different weights/falling speeds. If you want to get the feel for if they DI, switch it to a level 5 comp. This is all assuming you don’t have anybody else to play against though, because human competition will always be better than computer training.
Jumping with the control stick in conjucntion with attacking with the c-stick gives you far more precision with your aerials than using x/y. The x/y buttons are a good distance away from the control stick. Jumping with the control stick effectively allows you administer total air control with your character from the first frame of your jump.
Let’s look at Marth’s double foward aerials for example.
Most players jump with x/y and use the control stick + A button for the first aerial, then c-stick the second. When doing this, you have no choice but to get at least SOME air control foward from the first aerial, thus making it harder to space. Take a look at recent high level Marth matches and you’ll come to realize that you very seldom see this technique anymore, if at all, because you run a good risk of getting shield grabbed/crouch canceled if they aren’t spaced perfectly.
Sure you could use the buttons with the c-stick and get the same result, but most people find that VERY hard to do, especially on the left side of the screen. I found it was much better for me in the long run to learn to do the SH with the stick, THEN go and practice the double f aerials. Now, I have all sorts of neat things I can do with the technique that I haven’t seen applied before.
I’m still trying to perfect my technique, jumping with the control stick, but in the short time I’ve made the switch it’s upped my game immensley.It’s my belief that Marth should NEVER be shield grabbed EVER. Can imagine how devastating a Marth would be, if he could space his aerials PERFECTLY everytime? With more practice, I feel i’ll be able to find out.
Mickey D:
If I were you, I’d stick with the buttons for right now, but if you feel determined enough to practice with the stick I’d highly recommend it.
Anyways I play Samus, Ice Climbers, Marth, and Dr.Mario mostly. Samus being my favorite.
I’ve been trying to get good with CF but he’s too damn technical for my tastes. Seems like all or nothing dude like Magneto and I’m a more defensive player.:sad: Any tips cuz even the computer can own me with him.:razzy:
Yupper. Nothin’ beats da OG baby. Not really too much of a Doc fan. He’s gotten WAY too popular since TG6.
Yeah, if you wanna get good with Falcon you really have to work on your technicals. He’s not the most technical character in the game nor does he require the most technical skill, but he definitely requires a player to be above average. Falcon’s all about getting that first hit in. I’d say Falcon is one of the least mindgame oriented characters in the game, he’s extremely combo dependant (but that’s just me).
Captain Falcon is really just a “Play the fucking game” character.
Make sure you can SHFFL all his aerials properly, especially his F. aerial. SHFFLd F. aerials can lead to a free grab at low percentages and even multiple knees depending on the character.
He has alot of moves that can lead into F. aerial on normal falling chracters (his most important kill move). Foward B, D. aerial, nuetral aerial, up aerial (when you have an opponent under the right juggle conditions), up throw and down throw all lead to f. aerial at mid to higher percentages on normal falling, and some floaty characters (a good Falcon can combo a Marth from zero percent to death).
Falcon has a harder time against Fast fallers (Fox, Falco, Falcon) because he can’t really combo them. He has to rely more on mindgaming techs and failed techs…eh that the basic stuff. If you have any specific questions I’ll try my best to answer them.
-Syn
(sniff this thread is becoming so productive. it’s beautiful)
(although I didn’t explain what L-cancelling was).