I’m with you there brother…I mean i enjoyed 1/2 of Sonic Unleashed. All that half was the part where you didn’t have to turn into an effing werehog…
Sonic & Knuckles was Sonic 4?
no it wasnt, it was merely an expansion of sonic 3
It looks great to me Sonic, I just say when it usually comes down to it… “why the f*** not?”
Hear hear. I refuse to get excited until it’s in my hands and is awesome. Until then I approach with this with positive apprehension.
Originally, Sonic 3, and Sonic & Knuckles were supposed to be one large game. However, deadlines, space constraints and all that good stuff caused the team to release them separately and utilize the lock on technology. So that explains why it has no number.
Warning…incoming rant! Warning…incoming rant!
Because money is voting power…especially in this industry where most company’s only source of revenue IS that game. I’m not counting DLC because in order to have that you have to have the original retail copy of the game in the first place. Game makers can’t do concerts to make money and they don’t release them in a bigger format before selling it to the masses…For the most part that game is the ‘Period’. That makes the power of buying a game way more important. If Sega All-Stars turns out to be solid from impressions and what not then MAYBE I’ll reserve and buy a copy day 1 to support them and tell Sega ‘HEY…YOU’RE DOING SOMETHING CORRECT FOR A CHANGE! HERE’S MY MONEY!’. The recent string of home console sonic games I feel have been missing some of their potential for dumb reasons that shouldn’t have passed the round table discussion…that I cannot agree with. I want the Sonic series to return to at least being respectable considering that this was a series that at one time stood on the same plataeu as Mario and giving Sega money for a lackluster effort sends them the wrong message. This puts me at great odds with a lot of other Sonic fans who clearly believe a game is good despite glaring problems (seriously…2006 is a gltich and Sega shouldn’t have made a dime on that game). I’m just trying to get Sega to raise their standards…even if I am one person. I bought Unleashed for 2 different consoles because I wanted more of something similiar like that to the day stages…and I’m pretty sure they’ve heard plenty of complaints about Werehog so if they pull something like that again then I feel that’s telling me they don’t care about the people who are putting up the cash for this series.
end small rant
I want more info on Sega All-Stars we’re less than 30 days away from it’s release and there’s only been a few bits of info…The game does look great but I’m not falling for the Sonic hype loop again…even if they do have Ryo on a forklift. The problem that I can perceive going wrong with it is it feeling incredibly generic…which is what I don’t want. We don’t know how power-slides work, we don’t know if there’s a drafting system, we don’t know what the power ups are and I haven’t even heard if the player’s vehicles have different handling attributes or anything. Granted it would really dumb of them to not do that but Sega has me at a point that regardless of how good the game looks it’s always an ‘I da knooooooowwwww…’ from me. I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
Edit:
v I actually do remember reading that and I think I posted it when I saw it. Werehog isn’t needed really…They should seriously just swap that out with Knux. If they seriously are considering bringing it back then they’re gonna have to give more purpose to his moves. If you’re going to copy a game at least do it correctly.
Don’t know if this has been posted in here before, and this isn’t a troll attempt, but the Werehog isn’t done yet. *sigh http://www.destructoid.com/sonic-team-threatens-us-with-more-werehog-action-in-sonic-unleashed-2-123541.phtml
What you fail to see however is that with alot of these games, they ARE listening to the fans. However these fans are children. More or less Sega makes, and markets these games to kids. They conduct focus groups where they present a bunch of scenarios to said kids, and they take their notes. How do you think ideas like the werehog passed? Those kids wanted to see sonic transform into something. And it happened. Us nostalgic fans can only sit back and watch as one of our favorite mascots from years past is basdardized over and over again because to Sega, WE are not the intended target. They want sonic to remain timeless, but to do that, they gotta keep him fresh to the kiddies.
It’s the sad truth, and trust me it upsets me like no other. I doubt any of the High budget, 3D Sonics will ever appeal to us, it’s a doomed road. I doubt i’ll even try sega all stars racing (not because i won’t like it, but i really don’t care about 90% of the cast). But, I think sega is listening, and trying to do something for the older fans (all of us) by making the new 2D sonic. After this though, i still think they’re gonna go back to making those sonic games that mirror the animated show to the young ones.
This doesn’t make any sense. Why have other video game franchises managed to remain timeless AND aimed at all ages while simultaneously evolving over the years and introducing and refining gameplay ideas, like Mario and Zelda?
Also, being 2D doesn’t make a Sonic game good. Look at Sonic Advance 2, Sonic CD, and arguably a bunch of Sonic 3 & Knuckles. There’s a huge problem with Sonic, but it isn’t due to some (mis)conception of who their fanbase is.
Dr. B doesn’t play Alpha-state games and defensively argue that critics just “have no skill.”
I have issues with that mentality especially because (at the risk of sounding more and more like a broken record) Mario has proven time and time again that you can make a game that appeals to everyone in the spectrum and still stay fresh. If they’re listening to fans then it sounds like they’re listening to one set and completely disregarding the other (until now that is…We’ll see how Needlemouse pans out). I really wonder though…Was there actually some kid somewhere who sent Sega and email that read:
Dear Sega,
I really like the sonic series but I really would like Shadow to have a gun and drive cars. THAT WOULD BE SO AWESOME!
Signed,
Edgar Crumpet
P.S. I like fishing with Big the Cat and would like the next sonic game to be completely revolved around him!
Sega Employee: reads and eyes grow wide …GREAT SCOTT! THIS KID IS A GENIOUS!!!
Seriously though…the moment something like this was brought up at the round table discussion, the head guy at the table should have hit a red button and dropped that guy’s chair into a fiery pit.
Uh, that shit was posted back in MARCH 2009, dude.
Anyway, at this point Project Needlemouse is definitely gonna be Sonic 4. I don’t know why they’re being so coy with the name, I mean “ZOMG SONIC 4!” would be the big hype train they need.
This is how I run all my board meetings.
Get ready for some text…
Issues or not with the reasoning behind my statement, you’d be ignorant to ignore the fact that sonic is, and has always has been marketed towards children. WE as older consumers might think turning into a “werehog” is a stupid pointless gimmick that doesn’t belong in a sonic game, but little jimmy, 8 years old playing his brand new Wii feels that those portions are his favorite parts of the game. Like any other company, even Sega does research before starting development on a project, gets feedback, and refines ideas according to suggestions of randomly assorted consumers. Giving Shadow a gun was probably the stupidest idea ever, and it was a commercial failure, but somebody suggested it, people agreed, and it stuck. This added another below par game to the list of Sonic catastrophes.
http://kotaku.com/5336675/sega-impossible-to-please-all-sonic-fans-with-one-sonic-game
When we were all younger, Sonic was the coolest thing around, and that’s what made us fall in love with him. Because at that time, the early 90’s, everything was about attitude, and that’s what the “cool” kids identified with most. Nowadays, the formula has changed, and Sega is trying to think of new “gimmicks” to draw more children towards the games. Mario may in fact remain timeless, but notice that Mario has pretty much kept its formula the same for years now. The problems for sonic arose during his transition into 3D. Though i like Sonic Adventure, you’d be a fool to not realize the game was full of problems. Audio, music, music overpowering dialogue, endless pits, flawed controls, characters no one wanted to be, etc. He just didn’t transition as well into 3D as Mario did. And the problems only got worse. They tried to keep Sonic as “cool” that he slowly became lame to those who grew up with him. Mario also happens to be, and still is the main mascot of a company who has a very successful console. People play Nintendo for Mario. After the Dreamcast died, Sonic was left as a multi-console whore. For the most part, the rivalry between Mario and Sonic died with it. Sure he showed up here and there go against mario (brawl, the olympics) but he’s not the name that he used to be. One last thing about Mario is that his main games are anticipated. Sonic has gotten to a point where he has a few games every year. Mario’s big titles are spaced out, with longer development time, and with it anticipation. The same goes for the likes of Zelda, and Metroid. Unlike Sonic, there’s space. That quality in Nintendo games kept the fans, while sonics many, many titles started causing fans to lose hope, something unseen in Mario’s fan base (Mario Party does not count).
Here in the states, Sonic’s story was also altered and inconsistent with Japan. Japan never had Mobius, or Dr. Robotnik. They always had Earth, humans, and Eggman. When Adventure came here to the states, and was localized, it kept that Japanese formula. This caused a confusion amongst the fan base. Why is Robotnik being called Eggman? Why are there humans everywhere? Who the hell is Big the Cat? Why is he even in the game? Growing up with the SAT AM cartoons, US fans were turned off wondering what happened to Mobius, and where this world came from. In the west the story was changed suddenly, when in reality, this was always the case for Sonic. It was just that the Localization crew for the original genesis games felt that this story wouldn’t work in the states. This problem was never suffered by Mario, whos formula/plot has been semi-consistent throughout every game with a few changes here and there. He always lived in the Mushroom Kingdom, Bowser more or less was always the main antagonist, and peach will forever be kindnapped and helpless. Plus, it helps that Miyamoto is behind the whole thing.
But like I said, things are looking up for Sonic fans looking for that nostalgic sonic game. Shortly after this article (or before) Sega somewhat apologized for not making those Sonic games after SA2 as good as they could’ve been, and after that “Project Needlemouse” was announced, a game more or less intended for the neglected fans in Sega’s overall “plan”. So far, suggestions are being listened to. It’s gonna play on a 2D plain, and Sonic is the only playable character. Let’s just see where it goes from here. After all, back in the day, it was Mario and Sonic on top. Today, they both compete with far bigger titles. But as Sega said “…you can’t please everyone.”
…Just my defense. I stand by my statement.
Edit I also agree with Dr. B up there that being 2D doesn’t ensure that the game will be good. I remember finally playing Sonic CD and realizing it was complete shit. Sonic 1 felt faster and was much more fun without it’s flashy graphics. Those side games like Knuckles Chaotix are also guilty. The only down part about sonic 3 in my opinion is Hydrocity Zone. Fuck underwater sonic levels.
That was a long ass post that didn’t seem to say much…least I didn’t get it. My problem wit Sonic games is they play like shit, not that Sonics not “cool” or whatever. Mario’s not cool either (he’s pretty damn lame) but his games a shit load of fun to play…thats why Mario’s stillg ood and Sonics not.
Firstly, your point still really isn’t. Marketed at children doesn’t necessarily imply “bad.” Nor does it preclude being able to draw in an older crowd. Mario games are marketed at children. Zelda games are marketed at children. Pixar films are marketed at children and often end up kicking the shit out of the cinematic garbage that most adults call “good.” Miyazaki films: ditto, but less so (I know the Pixar head idolizes Miyazaki but the master has been surpassed). Archie Comic Sonic lore is still very much aimed at the underaged, and localization hardly has anything to do with why the Sonic franchise continues to consistently suck. You stand by your statement, but (and this isn’t a flame) it still doesn’t make sense. Kotaku arguments aside (because Kotaku is terrible and its authors couldn’t form a consistent argument if they were hammered by LogicMjolnir), there’s really only one reason that modern Sonic games are terrible: they are poorly made, in literally almost every way. Bugs are omnipresent, camera issues almost never get better and inexplicably get WORSE, the quality of platforming is tedious, the insistence on “speed” is crippling (think about that one), the gameplay mechanics that affect and are affected by the poorly-written narratives follow no real reason and are implemented poorly – I could be here all day, but THAT’S the problem, not Sega’s target audience.
Secondly, I’m not Dr. B. Dr. B can dual wield buildings while fighting Power Pack clones that Rita Repulsa turned enormous, whereas I need two hands to hold a building.
…Which was stated. I mentioned how Mario has kept the same formula; a formula that has worked for decades. When Sega attempted to change the game up, they fucked it up. Sonic just didn’t transition well into 3D, and they kept putting him back into that dimension. But it’s whatever, Give me Sonic’s old school Genesis titles over Mario’s NES titles anyday. But nowadays, it’s all about Mario for the reason you posted.
No worries, i’m just here for the sake of argument. I’m not taking anything you say as a flame. The only reason why i’m stressing the target market so much is because game play problems aside, every new sonic game contains some kind of gimmick, character, situation, etc that the older fans immediately shrug off and dislike. The only reason why movie studios like Pixar draw in adults is because they truly understand what the public wants. The kids are satisfied with the dialogue, characters, and plot, but the adults pick up on so much more. Take Wall-E and Up as an example. Wall-E for the most part was a silent film for the first 45 minutes. The children were entertained by the things he was getting himself into, where as adults saw a more deeper meaning within it, and saw the silence as art. Up introduced death, almost immediately at the beginning of the movie. Kids probably didn’t pick up that Ellie had a miscarriage but Adults sure as hell did. Sonic more or less doesn’t have that kind of small detail that has us older gamers going “wow” despite us playing a kids game. (You can also factor in that Sonic’s games are VERY poorly written, and for the sake of argument Mario’s overall plot is fairly simple with dialouge only when needed. They don’t over do it.)
I wrote within that previous argument the fact that Sonic games are made almost yearly, some years even see more. As you mentioned, one of the main reason why these games are bad is because they’re poorly made, directly contributed to their short development cycles, and even more ridiculous deadlines. They just churn them out to fastm and they suck. Period.
I also only used kotaku’s article as an example because the words written were directly from a Sega exec’s mouth. Their opinion wasn’t what i was interested in, but more so the situation with sonic through Sega’s eyes.
Yeah but I think Sonic can be done in 3D. Those SA1 stages where fun cause they had a good mix of blitz speed and lots of platforming just like old school sonic. No they aren’t the best but then really neither is Mario 64. The problem with SA1 and subsequently all the other 3D Sonic games that at least played decent was all the shit that didn’t have to do with Sonic. SA2 would be a lot more fun if I didn’t have to play as all those other people. SU would be great without the night stages. So on and so forth. I don’t think the marketing thing is the problem. It’s all the useless, not Sonic shit. Nobody wants to play as those people, not even kids.
Edit: and I love Hydrocity Zone. It’s that fucking Pyramid level that sucks.
I absolutely agree. People want Sonic. Sega gives people Sonic, as well as a bunch of pointless shit before you can play as Sonic again. Why even bother calling it Sonic if you only use the bastard through 15% of the game? Honestly, who gives a shit about Shadow? They should’ve just made him a semi replacement for the Metal Sonics and been done with it, not playable. Don’t get me started on those emerald hunts…
And a mistake they made was allowing you to play as the villians. Like in horrow movies, the second you add more insight to a villain and their motives, and start developing them more and more, they become more human. In turn, the player or viewer sympathizes towards them and they lose their status as a powerful, “unstoppable” figure. Robotnik is no longer that bad ass he once was, Shadow almost as immediately as he was introduced was shown as an emotional wreck…they were practically ruined because you saw their side; a side that for the most part should have been hidden.
But honestly, the only thing i liked about Hydrocity Zone was the music, and the fact that sonic could run over stretches of water if her was going fast enough. I also hate the shit out of Sandopolis Zone. Slow as hell, and fucking light switches…WTF?
worst trailer I have ever seen in my entire existence…this is from the wii version of the game though but that character select screen is terrible
I like how Sonic goes Super Sonic and ditches the car, like even he knows him being a car is retarded.
Oh yeah, terrible fucking trailer.