Like to say thanks for you guys helping out with all these character matchup info.
But quick question… Ryu doesn’t get shit after dp, sadc, and if he had no more ex or ultra right? Like I mean Akuma can do dp, sadc, triple fb. Sagat can do dp, sadc, tiger knee or f+hk. Even Ken can do dp, sadc, dp. Last time I check Ryu doesn’t get shit right? Just making sure.
Yeah, I think he can only follow up with ex hado, ex shoryu, super, or ultra. Of course he wouldn’t have his super if you fadc’d it.
dont bother fadc’ing if you don’t have ultra, cause yeah you can get ex tatsu, or hado but after damage scaling it’s not gonna be worth it, better off saving for super or ultra, or saving for a more meaningful sadc later… unless you absolutely know that it will kill them in the process, thats the only time it’s worth it… i’ve seen alot of ryu players fadc just because its in their muscle memory, and they don’t have an ultra (daigo included) and more often than not, it cost them the match.
wut you’re saying is definitely true. it sux to waste 2 stocks when you’ve got nothing to do after.
BUT
it might be good to keep in mind that srk fadc is just a safe way to srk when you aren’t sure it’ll hit.
it’s not the best idea, yeah, but it’s an option that shouldn’t be completely dismissed.
the problem i have is not only with ryu but also ken, when i go to the arcade to play sf4 and ONLY play ken and ryu over and over it gets irritating whether or not they are good.
Yeah, burning 3 meters to do sub par damage is not something you want to be doing…just like how I see people doing c.mk, ex hado, sadc ultra…Yeah I suppose you can do that however 1, it’s not even guaranteed (if they blocked the c.mk ex hado), and 2 the damage for 3 bars is weak as hell…the ONLY time I would use this is if my opponent were to die off of the combo…but considering that, why would I do c.mk, ex hado, when I could just save for 1 more bar…and use c.mk, hado XX super?
All in all, the reason why players should be using shoryu SADC out with out ultra is because like someone else said, it’s a great tool to get out of a sticky situation. I don’t think that it costs me the match very often, however I personally will use shoryu, sadc, no follow up merely because I need a change of pace and tempo. The times to use this is when your getting pressured by someone heavily…remember to use those shoryu’s RARELY, but when you DO make them count! Hit them hard with an ultra, or better yet, do it to get yourself out of a bad situation and change the tempo of the match…to me, 2 bars is SO worth it.
yeah that’s gonna be the case at the arcade when the game is so new. personally, i think it’s good for ryu after being outshined for so long by ken in 3s…
wait a month when people can play at home, though, and i’ll bet ppl are gonna be playing less shotos at the arcade.
you’re still gonna have to play a lot of random shotos online though… the game’s estimated to sell 1.5 mil. can you imagine maybe a 1/3 of that being shoto scrubs? half a million guys, kids and grown men alike, mashing fireballs and jumping HKing away. haha
you know what’s worse than playing 90% ryus/kens though? playing run away fireball akumas. i get a lot of those from casual players.
makes sense.
haha i meant if Ryu had no more meter after doing the shoryu, sadc would anything hit. But either way thanks guys. I guess Ryu doesnt have something as retarded as Sagat’s dp, sadc, tiger knee/f+hk… sagat is retarded
truth.
He’s a great character to pick up on the side with Ryu…any match that Ryu loses at, Sagat does supremely better.
sagat, he’s the best.
gonna give you that tiger uppercut
and the tiger knee
Thanks for that! I checked out the wiki and I only saw one hadouken listed…do jab, strong, and fierce all do the same hadouken now? I thought the speed and recovery frames were different.
On a different note: where can I find information on damage scaling? I hear this term being used a lot. Does it only refer to increased ultra damage when comboing in from normals (and specials or supers?)?
I just want to point out real quick to the post above me…
The ex tatsu is actually a bit less then 200 damage. It does 5 hits (depending on how close) at 40 damage per hit…but point of the matter is that damage is scaled. Basically an ex tatsu ALONE does an actual: 164. Point of the matter is that your going to be gettin 164 damage MAX out of tatsu, not 200 (yeah I know it’s anal for me to point that out, but take into perspective when your actually combo’ing it, the damage is scaled WAY to much…after figuring this out, I rarely even use this move now days.).
EDIT: Just to make my reasoning a bit more clear (you’ll see 2 damage stats, its because ex tatsu DOES NOT always hit 5 times when combo’ed it most the time hits 4 times, but I gave both stats, 5 ex tatsu hits and 4 ex tatsu hits):
ex tatsu: 164 damage
c.mk, ex tatsu: 214 damage (6 hits) 194 damage (5 hits)
c.lk, c.lp, c.hp, ex tatsu: 158 Damage (8 hits) 146 damage (7 hits)
Tatsu: 110 damage
c.mk, tatsu: 180
c.lk, c.lp, c.hp, tatsu: 135
What are you really getting more for your meter? 10 more damage aka 1% of health?
thanks for the calculations. it often enters my mind to do some math, but i’m always too lazy to actually get to it.
to respond to your question too literally: there are a few reasons i see for using EX tatsu in cases where damage is similar to regular tatsu:
i think the biggest reason might be if you are going for dizzy. i’m not sure if scaling applies for dizzy, but even if it does, maybe EX will get you that much closer to dizzying your opponent, especially if you corner combo afterward.
for some positioning reason. regular tatsu usually puts you at about sweep range while EX often hurls them across the screen. maybe if you’re down to very little life and you want to run away? haha
if you want to corner combo afterward, which will do very little damage. and we’ve gone down this road many a time before (is it worth? no. well, unless you can kill them with it… etc). but again, corner comboing might help with that dizzy…
style points, which can also sometimes translate to intimidation points. if you do a huge fancy combo (e.g. c.lk, c.lp, c.hp, hadou xx fadc, c.lp, c.hp, ex tatsu, ex hadou, ultra), it can be very demoralizing/intimidating for your opponent, which is a big factor in mind games.
but i think in general, regular tatsu is going to be better. especially mid screen, since it will help you corner your opponent.
but i’ll just add that i played probably the best ryu player in korea, and whenever he cornered his opponent (which was very often), he would almost always go for the biggest/longest combos, which often led to dizzy…
edit: i thought of one more reason. if you don’t trust your execution, EX tatsu is often safer than normal tatsu. a minor detail.
Stun scales just as much as damage…in the long run, regular tatsu does much better as it deals 200 stun all times, where as ex tatsu stun is scaled every hit (50 per hit)
I’m kinda confused at this one…Regular tatsu puts you at vary’ing ranges lk farthest away (3/4 full screen), hk being right in their face…I’m talking on hit, so you may be talking about a different situation.
Again corner combo’ing may help with “dizzy” however I don’t value dizzy as much as i do a free ultra (damage > stun in most cases however can be situational). You also have to take into perspective that when a character is dizzied, the combo meter STILL stays in tact…for example if you dizzied after a buff combo that lasted about 6 hits or so, the next combo will be scaled HEAVILY (40% on the first hit).
I suppose you can say “style points” and flash…however that shit doesn’t get you anywhere in top play. The best around don’t get intimidated by buff combos like that because they know it’s possible.
Anyways, in my opinion, ex tatsu is good in 2 situations, breaking tech throw’ers and in the corner when you have ultra.
Concerning the top Korean Ryu, he may go for big combos and all, but he isn’t hitting more then 50% on a player EVER no matter WHO you are with one combo. The reason why I’m saying is…biggest combo is great and everything, however I can do the same without flash by doing c.mk, hado xx super. Personally, I value my meter more then to do flash combos.
EDIT: Yes, VERY minor detail, as I am a person that EXPECTS combo’s to hit, not a person that hopes for combos to hit.
That’s good to know. What is the algorithm for the damage scaling, I noticed that third combo does less than a standalone ex tatsu.
scaling goes:
hit 1: 100%
hit 2: 100%
hit 3: 80%
hit 4: 70%
hit 5: 60%
hit 6: 50%
hit 7: 40%
So on and so forth. This goes for stun as well (tested since I thought I thought up a gouki stun combo that does about 1300 stun unscaled)
Ah, when does it stop getting decreased? Is this reversed for ultra’s? I thought I heard that chaining extra moves into an ultra increases its damage. And whats up with the data for hadouken? Do all three hadoukens have the same frame data (recovery, etc.)?
Damaged stops getting scaled at hit number 10 being at 10% scale PER hit every hit after. Chaining extra moves into an ultra does NOT increase it’s damage as it scales just the same as other combo’s. It’s actually fairly difficult to calculate how much damage happens when using ultra’s since the more revenge meter you have, the stronger your ultra (also guts has is added somewhere in there too). All of Ryu’s hadoken’s have the same recovery at like 45 frames or something close to there.