this
i know you can c+mp, c+hp. on cross up you can even c+lp,c+mp,c+hp. i never said it doesnt work but we’re talking about after f+hp here, it does make a big difference but like i said, i’m not sure since i’ve never tried it. ryu is not “deep” in the op after f+hp. you barely get enough time to get the c+jab after the f+hp so why bother. since you’ve seen daigo matches, did you notice in a couple matches against good players after the f+hp he immediately goes into srk…ever wonder why is that?
for the person who asked about SADC after hadoken, i usually use fierce hadoken with either ken or ryu.
Badass avatar bro.
^ Thanks. A guy called worthless designed it, so props to him.
Also props to Ranix for winning an SF IV tournament in Japan. Gaikokujin power!
I got another question for you Ryu players, again against Blanka. When he does Electricity from just slightly away from you, what do you do to punish? Sometimes if you try to cr.MK or cr.HK him, the Electricity still beats your move clean… not like old school SF2 games…
I think c.short c.jab c.fwd would work. Maybe even c.jab c.strong.
if your a slight bit away
i’ve been using FA on electricity
it’ll absorb one hit and hit him
if youre too close though, of course electricity will hit more than once… and a huge chunk of your life is gone
Anyone have any good techniques on beating Abel? If it is posted on a previous page you can just put the page number and that would help a lot or if you would like to add to it I’d appreciate it.
Edit: I’m having problems with crossing up my friend who plays Ken. If he techs and I cross over he grabs me. If he doesn’t I’ve got to worry about/get wake up srk’d. Am I doing something wrong here or does Ken have frame advantage on me?
i dunno if someone already posted a VS abel strat either, but here’s mine:
(keep in mind that i only play against one abel player consistently)
abel (and any rekka char in general) annoys the hell out of me. if you get hit once with c.mp or c.mk, they’ll get guaranteed 3 more hits. fucking hell.
SO, the best thing to do is not get hit (haha, sound too obvious?). in other words, zone him out with fireballs, AAs, pokes, and block as much as possible. you’ll find that an abel player can’t do much from far away, and is always looking for ways to get close to you.
but of course that’s why he also has the roll and command grab. i find there are two main ways abel users try to sneak in the command grab:
- roll or dash in (especially after forward+short)
- after a blocked jump in
and they sometimes do it after 1 blocked rekka.
for #1, all i can say is watch out for it. time your fireball wisely so that they won’t roll under it and punish you, and watch for the dash during his rush down.
for #2, depending on the abel player, you could sneak in a DP after blocking his jump in or cross up. i used to try jumping out of the command grab, but if he’s not grabbing you and he’s attacking you instead, you can eat rekkas or even an ultra. basically like vs zangief… but since in sf4, block stun is generally < hit stun, if they threw out their jumping mk too early, you could dp them out of whatever mixup they were planning after landing.
also, always remember you can DP after the 1st and 2nd hits of rekka if you are blocking. this should scare them into not spamming rekkas.
but if they wisen up and block after 1 rekka to bait your dp, your fucked.
so in the end, i can’t be of that much help. so just keep in mind that just like the rest of the new 4 chars, abel is a mixup char, and u’d best just keep him away from you, and watch out for individual players’ patterns…
ps: his hoyle kick or wutever is super gay, too. but if you distance yourself right so that your are close enough when you block it, you can punish with a dp. they are -8, -9, -10, -6 frame advantage for abel on block (lk, mk, hk, EX, respectively). but if they space it right, they’ll be too far away. so if you can bait it, bait it close. and even if it hits, the non-EX ones are punishable by dp if they end up close enough.
and sometimes i’m able to beat a hoyle kick with straight up jumping mk.
pps: stock up on your EX meter. i dunno how useful this will be in the long run of sf4, but for the moment i’m using fireballxxFADC to bait abel’s ultra. this is still pretty dangerous, since ryu’s backdash isn’t the fastest. make sure you’re full screen away, and everything will be alright. and i’ve always dashed backward, and so you have to be prepared to close in on him, cuz he stops at about 3/4 of the screen. i haven’t tried dashing forward yet, cuz i’m chicken, but maybe it’s fast enough so that you’ll be able to block…?
ppps: and although i said block… maybe in the end, the best way to stop his mixups is by staying on the offensive and rushing him down…?
bingo, rush him down, keep the pressure on, and abuse jump ins, try to watch your opponents throw patterns to tech or just jump out of them
Abel’s rushdown/mixups can be intimidating but if he’s not within poking range he’s in trouble. Keep him at range and be wary of that ultra, it can even catch Ryu’s cr. fwd and it will hurt. A good player will also be trying to cross you and mix up his roll with tornado throw or elbow at every chance. Luckily most, if not all, of his moves can be easily punished. Especially his roll. You should be able to grab him out of it any time he rolls into you or behind you. If in doubt try to get some distance and force him to move into you.
Also don’t forget that if they like doing full rekka strings it’s SRK SADC time. On block you can pop him after the 1st hit if he goes low, or as a safer option block the first two hits and do it on his throw attempt.
Awesome responses guys! Ill be sure to try out all of these tips next time I play Abel. Don’t mean to sound ungrateful but does any one have any answers on my Ken question? Thanks a bunch again.
Before I leave this thread, I wanted to say one last thing.
In this game, Ryu is mid tier.
He is a little bit upper than mid tiers, the problem is he have some really difficult match up.
what happened, your ryu lost? just wondering cuz you came out of nowhere with that comment.
hahah, nah man just been having a lot of realizations towards this character. I’m fine with losing with Ryu actually, it shows that I have more to learn. I’ve been losing (well taking 4/5th at my tourny’s) with Ryu for quite awhile.
Sorry for coming out of nowhere with it, I just wanted to impart the knowledge that seems like everyone is looking for (tier status). I don’t really want to debate wether I’m wrong or not. I just wanted people to think about it for a bit, and see if anyone saw validity towards the statement.
EDIT: Just saw this in the japanese thread…I’m pretty sure it doesn’t pertain to me as a “general player”, but I just want to clarify that I’m not crying more or less just want to figure out what other people think about it. I personally don’t think any changes need to occur with Ryu, as he has every tool he needs to beat people, however it’s up to the player to dig deep down and find those tools…they are not as apparent as most people think. When playing in tournaments with Ryu, you truly have to be the better player to come out on top…Unlike Sagat where he can body you with very basic play and win off of his character strengths, not as much as his player strengths.
So since no one is talking, I thought I’d bring up a different look at things…In my eyes, Ryu is worst of the shotos.
Ken has a rush down that compares with the most powerful of the game. I’d say that the “oh shit” factor of him off of a knockdown is up there with Zangief’s. Kara-throw shenanigans is good enough to begin baiting combo’s that end with ex tatsu, or shoryuken. The fact that Ken is “par” from the outside is a big advantage too. I personally think of him like an opposite Ryu where Ken is just amazing from the inside, yet nothing special from the outside.
Akuma has tools that are much better then Ryu’s as well, from the outside and from the inside. As it’s been shown, Akuma from the outside is superior to Ryu because of air hadou’s. He also has easier ways to get in on his opponents…air hadoken’s, s.hk, and demon flip’s to name a few. At the same time, Akuma’s lockdown and pressure tactics are some of the best in the game. Yes he takes huge amounts of damage, however with 40% combos, I don’t really feel as if it’s as big as a problem that people make it.
So lets break down Ryu…What does he REALLY have? His main objective is to use hadoken’s and footsies from afar to hopefully set the opponent up to get a knockdown, and do a combo from a crossup or other tricks. However from the inside, Ryu isn’t that great…have any of you felt stuck after the opponent blocks your c.lk, c.lp, c.lp? What does he do next? You try to mix it in with tick throws right? Well here’s the thing, at top level play, this doesn’t work…throws becomed tech’ed, strings become blocked, and Ryu is pushed into the situation where he needs to get the knockdown again. It’s like…what did that knockdown even warrant me? From afar, Ryu uses hadoken’s and footsies, however they are sub par to a lot of characters who play the same way. Characters like Chun, Sagat, Akuma, Dhalsim, shit even Ken all do the same thing that Ryu does from afar but better. The only tool that he has that most characters don’t have is Shoryu SADC. This tool is one of the only redeeming factors that makes him “good.”
Anyways, that’s my reasoning for saying Ryu is mid tier, is that unlike a lot of other characters, he doesn’t have “enough” to be in the high tier range…let alone top tier range.
Actually, I think Ken and Ryu are pretty much the same from the inside. What makes Ken so much better? Kara throw and EX Tatsu? You don’t really have to worry about that if you just down tech.
If Ken makes you block a short,jab,jab, the mix up is either kara throw or low forward EX Tatsu right? If you down tech, you either tech the throw, or you get hit by low forward. EX Tatsu will just whiff over your head since your still crouching. If you do get hit by EX Tatsu though, that mix up is just totally ridiculous and really is totally in Ken’s favor, but he needs it, because without it he does have much else. He sucks and getting knockdowns. The only way he can get a knockdown is either low roundhouse, SRK, or Throw. Ryu has at least twice as many ways of scoring a knockdown.
i dont think anyone was asking about tier status. people already thought about it and came up with the answer. it all depends on where/who you play. who is the best ryu player in the US? i want to hear what he got to say about whether ryu is mid or better than ken. i play ryu/ken and most of the other characters. though some matches ken’s f+mk help him out a bit, i still would never put him over ryu. ranix also plays ryu, i dont have to ask him what he thinks. i can ask every ken/ryu player around here and they would say the same. youre right though, ken sounds nice on paper and ryu got simple tool but if you master those simple tools ryu can beat anyone…except sagat.
if daigo can use ryu and have the highest win ratio to matches played in SF4 then i guess everyone else in japan really suck.
also dont agree with the being the better player to win at a tourney. like i told someone before, you cant have a 60% win ratio, win a tourney or qualify for nationals and think youre hot shit.
There’s plenty more mixups after clk, c.lp, c.lp other then low forward, or kara throw, like jump in, walk forward, jab dp (mid risk for high reward), but best of all forward+mk. You have to respect foward forward…which completely resets the momentum back into his favor. When Ken is in your face, you NEED to respect him because he has the tools to KEEP on you…Ryu doesn’t have that. Ken’s ability to knockdown is trivial when you start realizing at top level your getting rushed down from forward forward distance. Knockdowns just make Ken’s pressure even more scary…the pressure in itself is already strong enough
First off, that “answer” isn’t set in stone. Personally I disagree A LOT with those charts. And ya know, obviously we don’t have “Mr. Ryu of the United States” here, but I can tell you that if they were even half a player, they’d explain to you why he’s not as good as everyone says he is as well. I would even go as far as saying that Daigo can vouch for Ryu being mid tier. Asking other people what they think about the tier stats doesn’t matter…they have BIASED opinions to what the charts say. Why not look at a person who actually knows what they’re doing? Ask someone who has actually ran into problems with Ryu at top play, then you figure out why he isn’t as good as people make him out to be.
As far as the tools thing go…I suppose I agree, but what I’m saying is that there are characters who have much MORE tools then Ryu does. It’s WHY he’s mid tier. Never did I say he doesn’t have the tools to take anyone down (Sagat included). If anything Daigo is a perfect example of this…He’s showed that that Ryu has the tools to beat anyone of the cast…however at HIGHER LEVELS of play, the tools that he has aren’t enough to win…the ability to out think the opponent is needed.
Now, why does Japan suck because Daigo wins? This I’m kinda confused about. Daigo is an incredible player…ever thought of that? I’m sure you have, so you can understand why in the hands of an incredible player, a mid tier character can beat anyone. But I guess because Ryu’s so top tier, this is the reason why Daigo wins? I dunno this statement kinda confused me.
I’m really confused with the last statement, about being a better player. I suppose unless your using Sagat, yeah, you don’t need to be a better player to win a tournament…However with Ryu, unless your playing a bunch of mid tier players, then yeah, take it from me, you MUST prove that your a better player that day to win the tournament.
I honestly don’t know what your thinking right now, but maybe you should try some other characters before you go thinking Ryu has it tough.