I’ve only caught Viper and another Bison with it. LOL:lame:
I like neutral fierce. It beats air tatsus I believe. Though I do prefer jump back fierce.
of course I agree. Standing roundhouse and standing MK are great and now I’m even incorporating standing jabs and strongs into my poke game.
I should have been more specific in my previous post. What I meant was his neutral jumping moves. Heck a lot of his jumping moves in general.
I’ll rephrase the question.
What neutral jumping attacks are good besides neutral jump roundhouse? I can’t get any mileage out of any of the others. What are some good situations to use neutral jump mk? It seems like they’re all very situational and either a lot of them are useless or I’m just not using them right.
I certainly wouldn’t mind at all. A lot of characters can juggle into ultras and multiple moves from the ground. If Bison comboing into skull diver for free with damage adjusted to equal that of just a regular headstomp (a landed headstomp + skulldiver=old headstomp damage) is too much then easy ass target combos and a friggin normal that juggles (sagat im talking to you) into all of his specials is just broken. Okay, not quite broken, but borderline ridiculous.
But anyways, in the end I’d rather not have this as much of a luxury as it would be. Why? Because people already avoid headstomp as much as it is. It would make jumping around like a moron sticking out whatever you know beats headstomp a totally legitimate tactic against bison. Matchups would become boring and frustrating as hell.
Just give him a slightly faster cr. fierce, better HS tracking on wakeup crossups, a PC worth using as a regular, non ex special, and that’s literally all he really needs.
give bison a difficult yet fun way to combo into an ultra from the ground (not easy like rogs, ryus or rufus but something along the lines of viper’s more elaborate ultra setups) and he’d be a complete beast and people would probably complain more about the char, but I think with all of this he’d just be on level with Ryu right now, who is apparently the most balanced char in the game. :yawn:
I could’ve sworn I comboed regular Hs into Dr on elf once in training mode. I even posted about it but maybe it was my imagination. I know it said 2 hit combo but maybe I hit him after the dr IDK. Couldn’t repeat it tho.
The headstomp can hit someone VERY low though, where it basically becomes more like a toe stomp, maybe if it hits that low it can combo into DR.Guessing not though.
The more I think about how BS Ryu’s ex tatsu is I see no reason headstomps shouldn’t be totally safe. I’m talking no recovery on landing, and if the other person whiffs Bison will usually float safely far away like in older games.
Headstomps would still do flat damage anyway.
Either that or at the very least Ex headstomp should always beat option select DPs. After watching that Daigo vs Gama match it is obvious Bison and maybe the game overall needs some tweaks.
I wouldn’t mind Bison not having anymore combos into ultra if he could air teleport. If you anticipate a jump, you can jump and quickly throw out mp 1, and if you find yourself coming down on a standing shoto, teleport backwards. Still less safe and ridiculous than safe high damage invincible moves (FADC dps) into ultras.
If Bison’s PC doesn’t get some speed or hitbox tweaks than at the very least the damage and/or stun should be raised a ton. It is a completely unsafe, slow move that can be punished with anything and yet it does low damage and average stun =/. It is less safe than DPs, without the priority, damage, or speed.
highly agreed. It’s not even really about inadequacies of bison but ridiculous safe moves of other characters. It’s a risk reward issue. Keep Bison the same, then make Ryu’s tatsu unsafe. Make Galactic tornados more unsafe. It’s ridiculous that these easy no risk ultra chars have so many safe options for big damage. It’s like they forgot about anyone OG without a fireball.
If bison got more stun on his pc (Psycho Crusher) it would be great, maybe up it to do around 350-400 stun. This would make srk spammers think twice about doing it during block strings or on wake-up cuz if they get punished they seeing stars real quick.
Bison then would have a reason add pc to his bnb’s. Honestly just giving bison more damage output really wont solve his issues, but if u give the players a good tool to work on that stun gauge more then it’ll give us more reason to stay on the offensive, even after certain characters have ultra and 2 stocks:chainsaw:.
If bison gets more ultra setups i feel he’s just becoming more like the rest of the cast (not saying its bad)…I picked bison cuz he was unique (and badass) so keeping his play style unique would be better. imo
Since bison cant land his ultra consistently this would actually make other characters/players respect his game a little more knowing he could dizzy them fast. Just my 2 cents
as for his nutral jump moves, at mid range nj.mk has good poke range as a keep away move and at close range or within crossup distance if they jump nj.lk is good to push them back most of time time.
I can’t say how these fair against sagats godly j.mp but it is usefull.
as for the HS, PC and such tweaks, I absolutely agree as well. other characters have it way easier so why not bison. we want balence capcom.
People keep saying “Anti-air move will make Bison too powerful. An overhead will make Bison too powerful.”
What?
What about these offensive juggernauts in the game: Rufus, Sagat, Ryu who all have anti-airs, overhead moves, insane zoning ability and overall better play? They aren’t too powerful, and they have these tools. Who is to say Bison can’t? His pokes are not so powerful that he needs to be restrained.
yeah I actually am starting to agree here. I mean he has tons of weaknesses that really cripple his game. so hell just add a damn good anti-air. I mean the way most people fight bison is by running away so give him better PC, HS, ect, then they will try to rush him, so give him better anti-air in addition to having superior offense. who cares make him tier they did it to other characters.
Since I’m not playing at too high a level against pro competition Bison is adequate for me currently and even with his supposed weaknesses I won’t be dropping him any time soon.
I would however like to see a few changes for the dash edition of SF IV. I hope he does get buffed but I also hope the weaker characters get buffed more. There is far more characters in more urgent need of help than Bison in my opinion. Anyway here is what I would try.
I don’t really mind Bisons weak defense, I feel thats the way the character should be and thats always been his design which I always believed as excellent offense, rubbish defense, attack or die, high risk for high reward (they only have the first part right :P). So I’m happy with his current defense options when standing which are okay. I would not bother improving his c.hp, his teleport and his s.rk. The properties of his ex.moves on wake up give him good escape options. I don’t mind his air game even though alot of characters beat him up there as well. Again something I don’t find too bothering.
I suppose Bison’s main weakness is his lack of high damage punish options when his opponents make a mistake. He doesn’t have alot of ultra set ups or much use for FADC-ing moves. The obvious answer is give Bison (and every other character) an equal number of viable ultra set ups as the current top tier characters have and than roughly equalize the damage output of the ultras for each character. However I don’t like this option as I feel it would lead to all the characters playing too similar.
Rather than say give him a few more ultra sets ups, I wonder what would happen if the cost of FADC-ing for Bison was just 1 bar of super meter. This would allow good return on investment for continuing combos’s when normally wasting 2 stocks of meter is usually never worth it. You could really up the damage output out of bnb’s with this but it would require good dexterity to pull off consistently, more so than simply combo-ing or fadc-ing into ultra like other characters do. One mistake with a link and he could be in for a world of pain. I’m not sure weather it might be too powerful though. It would also render his super further redundant. Just wondering what your opinions would be on that?
Looking at his current BnB cross up it does 251 damage, with one FADC cancel you can bring it up to 315 by repeating the combo (minus the j.mk of course). By FADC twice you could bring it up to 345. No one would spend the meter required to do this currently but if it only cost one bar of meter to FADC then its more worthwhile. Like wise you could get a direct jump in combo to around 402 to 412 by FADC up from 324-334. You can currently punish a fireball by using an ex.sk then FADC it for 251 damage but at the current cost of 3 bars of meter. This stuff isn’t worthwhile at the current cost of meter but could be considered viable alternative to ex.moves if the cost of meter was dropped to one bar per FADC. Would also allow Bison to try FADC a scissors kick into throw more often. Also these combos would build your opponents dizzy meter very quickly as well.
His super isn’t very good, as most people reckon its better to spend meter on ex.moves. I’d give a slight damage buff to his super and make it that it fully connects off j.mpx2 rather than the current version half missing. Perhaps have it go through fireballs entirely to make it some sort of midscreen fireball punisher like it was in ST.
His signature move is currently not great, everyone is basically in agreement on that one. So I would look at that as well. I would speed up his regular pyscho crushers. However I would not have it pass through your opponent on block. Its not an escape tool like ex.crusher. Like mk and hk scissors all the regular crushers would have to be ranged correctly to make safe or relatively safe something that would be quite difficult to do (but easier than current versions). However the improved speed would allow you to punish careless jumps in and jump aways and also make a better amour breaking tool. The quicker speed would also mean if you use it in a combo your would not loose the positional advantage as much as you currently do.
There is currently a second ultra set up for Bison, ex.Skull Driver into Ultra. However it requires your opponent to walk into it as you fly away into a corner building charge. You probably have more odds of winning the lotto twice than landing that ultra. So if Bisons ultra command was changed to the 2xqcf motion it would be a viable set up as no charge would be required. Granted landing a skull driver is hard because it gets stuffed by alot of stuff but thats why I would also the the Skull Driver back to its old cross up-able form to assist with landing it. Would still have it easy to stuff though.
The 2xqcf motion would also allow Bison to gamble on performing an ultra after FA absorb dash or FADC-ing a scissors kick. You could train a person to tech a throw if you repeatedly thow him or attempt to throw him after an FADC or FA absorb dash and then surprise him with an ultra. You would still be able to dash up after a block string and attempt and ultra as well.
This is keeping in line with Bisons other gambling ultra gimmicks (empty DR into ultra, whiff slide into ultra, anti air ultra).
Finally fake slide (again gimmick ultra set up time) and perhaps j.mk as an overhead like in HD Remix and ST/HD Remix respectively.
Finally finally I’d have his Devils Reverse auto correct itself if you cross up your opponent with it.
Plus cape at start of match to instill terror in my opponents.
Anyway what you guys think, too good, not improved enough?
yes those things would be good. I don’t really care about having defense on bison it’s just that his offense sucks. so if they can make it, like I have said before, where you are FORCED to be drawn into bisons game, which gives you the option to out think him fine but they can’t make simple exit strats to escape bison like is currently the case.
close thread
send the thread to capcom.
our demands for bison.
1.better hit boxes on the head stomp so it does not miss at absurd moments just because the character moved one eye lash distance.
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actually useful. faster that can punish runaway jumpers (jumping backwards) and incorrectly timed jumping forwards.
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a useful ultra link. j.mp sucks balls currently. needs something more versatile. rufus is offensive and he can do it lots of ways, how about give bison at least one good way.
4.perhaps being back psycho banish.
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add more block stun to his jumping moves like j.hp, hk, mk so that he does not have to land deep to follow up on the block string or combo. such an offensive character should not be reversed so easily. he should not depend on perfectly deep jump ins just to land a block string without fear of reveals by mashing idiots repeating DP motions.
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make his telaport a bit better.
lqstuart who’s that in your avatar? (besides my mom)
Anti-air Crouching Fierce Punch into Ultra.
what about just c.mp into ultra? hell blanka can j.hk, c,mk into ultra why not bison too? plus it goes with his style without having to adjust the character in any other way.
I think if they gave him…
-improved PC so that it’s worthwhile to actually use in a match outside of a combo
-more blockstun on jump ins
-gave bison an elaborate, difficult (but not to the point of un-executable) on the ground ultra setup with moderate risk. I’m thinking Viper’s more elaborate setups. Possibly giving bison a move with enough hit stun to FADC and land a FA2.
-J.mpx2 is easy to execute with little opportunity. Keep this but also throw in an ultra setup that has more opportunities to land but has difficult execution. I’m talking Viper’s more elaborate ultra setups, not a friggin effortless on-the ground target combo (rufus).
…with these three simple additons, he’d be truly well rounded as a char and not even close to being OP. An offensive char should have good offense, plain and simple. Bison has great offensive tools but rather mediocre offensive power. Great that he has good pokes but not enough power to really scare anyone…
In the end we don’t want a char with so many inherent advantages it requires us to sit back a little easier during matches. They really should also keep the character as a high skill character unlike sagat, ryu or rufus who don’t require nearly as much mental and reflexive skill imo. They’re all so ‘well rounded’ that there are inherent advantages in the char regardless of player. No matter how Bison is tweaked, playing him at higher levels should be a challenge. I think that’s why we are all sticking with him despite his ‘deficiencies’, because of how satisfying a win is, because you know you’ve actually earned it.
i’m in agreement. I don’t want bison to be simply easy mode. but they do have to tweak the HS a bit on hit boxes. I mean it is true as has already been pointed out here that it misses for the dumbest reasons when it shoudn’t. I mean you should be able to jump away or walk away if your fast but it’s dumb how moving like an inch because the other character did a move causes it to miss. just fix that and it would be a fair and balanced move.
why something so easy? I like Bison because he is a high skill character. when I win, it’s me that wins, not Bison. I’m proud of this because Ryu, Sagat and Rufus characters cannot say the same thing imo and I want to keep it this wa.
My ideal situation would be something along the lines of having an X amount of required hitstun from a landed combo with whatever special at the end FADC’d but not into another move but so that you could land an FA2 off of it for the ultra. The timing for getting the FA2 off before the opponent recovers from hitstun should be fairly difficult. Even this sounds too easy. I want something elaborate, difficult, fun, rewarding but with a good amount of opportunities to land/combo into.
I could also potentially see a new ultra setup like Chun Li’s which is very corner specific. It could be a fairly simple bnb cancel into ultra but would only work with the proper timing in the corner, aka shadaloo headquarters. IMO It’d be great because it wouldn’t involve Bison going on the defensive to land his ultra/comeback but on the offensive by getting them back into the corner. This would be the diametrical opposite of Ryu who can go on the defense and look for a stupid jump in or try a reversal.