I just mentioned ryu cuz he was the first that came to mind. I could have easily stated Zangief and his glowing fist combos, or Rufus’ ex SS, or what have you. I am just stating that Bison’s combos do weak damage, and his most damaging move (ex HS) doesn’t do that much damage, considering the risk involved.
Yes ryu’s ultra does less damage, but it also can hit from virtually anything. FA, jump in, SRK FADC, ex Tatsu, lp SRK, jMP, and a few others. Not to mention u can throw it out from a safe distance with little or no threat. Bison’s ultra doesn’t have that many ways to land, and if it does, it’s still super punishable (just like the PC).
yes indeed. just look at DR and HS in ST. far more effective. if HS misses in ST bison safely lands far away.
they really nerfed him in this one. I don’t see any reason why HS has to be punishable. hell rufus’s moves are very safe for the most part. why not the same with bison?
and again yes a way to effectively link is ultra is key.
also I’m wondering if a faster crusher would solve the runaway problem. just so long as you can’t kick him out of it, people who jump away would get crushered.
A way to link your ultra wouldn’t be too ridiculous, but complaining about the punishability of HS is absurd. If you catch someone with an EX-HS, you’re taking a massive chunk out of their life. If you miss, you’ll learn not to blindly throw it out there by being punished.
SK and PC just like Uppercuts get 1-5 frames of invincible on startup so no more throws or stuffs out of SK or PC. Capcom just loves Dragon punches? 3 frame startup and its invincible for the 1st 5 frames…jeez.
EXHS has even more priority…I mean Guiles CR.HP beats EXHS<----silly and annoying that Guile can just throw his 5 frame startup cr.hp and beat an EXHS.
Well it’s kind of like WTF when bison gets thrown out of scissors but seriously, how often does that happen and how often does someone plan it? It’s not as bad as Rog’s rushes that can be thrown on reaction and be part of a plan. He can be thrown on wakeup if he does anything but headbutt and jab, one of which can be punished pretty hard.
And technically the fact that lk scissors is safe and lp shoryuken is NOT then I’d say that it’s not far from being a fair trade. Throwing scissors out against an opponenet in the corner is pretty standard bison corner play. What idiot Ryu would just walk up to someone in a corner and repeatedly srk? With Bison if your scissors are blocked then you know you’re at even frames. Safe scissor kicks is Bison’s strongest asset in the end I think when all things are considered.
But anyways, EXHS getting beaten even by Sakura’s cr.hp (or is it cr.mp?? I dont ever play her) is utter BS. It doesn’t need better tracking (except in some situations like when someone jumps over you on wakeup) but more priority.
Just give Bison’s headstomp a bit more priority over antiair normals, strengthen his psychocrusher so it will actually be useful (a complete waste of his signature move, wtf were they thinking) and give a way to combo into an ultra that doesn’t need to be as easy as Rog’s, Sagat’s or Ryu’s but more along the lines of some of Viper’s more difficult ultra setups. These are really basic though and it’s sad that what most of us want are so utterly basic. At least we don’t main Vega!
agreed. I would like to see hpPC at least go full screen or a tad bit further, so even at full screen if your opponent jumps back u can catch them. I’ve already listed my other wants for it earlier. Also, it’d be nice if you could throw out the ultra if you hit them with the tail end of a PC (ie- charge <-, ->, <- + punch, keep charging, then throw out the ultra).
As for cHP from various characters stuffing it, that is completely lame. That shit should at LEAST trade.
Yeah overall his specials just need more use. You rarely see top Bison players use HS or DR (except to build meter). Look at Ryu’s/Sagats specials- every single one of them has uses.
PC speed and priority should be tweaked so basically if an opponent jumps back on wakeup PC can catch and will hit them . Pressuring shotos is ridiculous when you need no sense of timing to pull a reversal DP (safe if they have 2 ex bars ) and trying to bait it on their wakeup means you risk them jumping away and you have to play their stupid fireball game all over again.
Yeah and Headstomp at least either needs way better tracking or more priority. Neutral jumps should get stuffed by the ex version. Jumpins should definitely be stuffed as long as the headstomp is done at the proper time.
Crouch anything shouldn’t beat HS ever…
Actually a better hitbox/more priority would probably be better then better tracking. Though so many charctaers have moves that move them forward which makes HS miss, and that’s pretty gay.
If Bison doesn’t get a new way into his ultra then Bisons J.mp should have Ryu jmp or even Sagat j mp like priority. It is kinda retarded that such a floaty character has to jump to connect into his ultra , at least make it work.
I pretty much only HS if the opponent has been knocked down, or if I am fairly close, or if they’re crouching or throwing a fireball.
I somewhat agree here…more like it should trade (with the HS doing more damage). Ex HS should NOT trade, at least not without knocking the opponent down. The stupidity of Sagat being able to trade an EX HS into his ultra is fucking lame.
Arghhh I got thrown out of an EX SK last night to lose a match. I know I shouldn’t be throwing them from that close up but I was trying to time his jump in attack with the invincibility frames. He just ended up landing and throwing :crybaby:
Anyways, a lot of good points here. I didn’t know that Sakura’s cr. HP would stuff the EX HS. Does Balrog’s cr. HP do this as well?
And I agree with you about the Psycho Crusher, it’s just so useless to be Bison’s signature move. When I think about Bison, I think about the PC, not the HS or SK (though nowadays it would probably be his s.HK).
I haven’t heard about the Beta PC, can someone enlighten me on how it was so powerful?
I find myself wondering why Capcom decided to give EX-PC projectile hitboxes. It’s probably just to differentiate it a bit more from EX-scissors, but it’s really unintuitive because it seems like the only move in the game that does that (outside of projectiles, obviously).
it’s not the priority that’s the problem. EX HS has mad high priority, it trades with ryu’s hp srk on startup, which is pretty damn good. It’s the stupid trajectory that’s causing it getting beat out by c.hp moves that hit straight up.
It divides into two factors:
the stomp doesn’t trigger until bison’s within a certain distance of the opponent, which means until then, bison is just flying through the air being vulnerable.
the flight takes the same amount of time regardless of distance to target (wtf why?)
so in other words, when bison’s EX stomp arc is skinny, he gets knocked out of the air by c.hp because it puts him directly over the opponent before the stomp can activate. Whereas if you EX stomp from full screen(fat arc), he’ll beat c.hp everytime.
very good analysis. so what would you propose to fix it so it would not be effective but still fair?
again like I have said before, making the HS better but not broken better and the PC better as well will improve bison allot.
mainly if the PC was way faster and could hit people out of backwards jumping kicks it would be perfect to stop the runaway fools.
as I have said many times, one of bisons weaknesses is the fact that you get just run from him and his moves become useless or at least it puts him at a disadvantage. by giving him something to punish runaway players it forces you to actually fight bison which means you have to think because it would force his mix ups to be effective. again the issue is that you can just jump back which nerfs everything bison has. a faster PC with decent hit boxes would solve that problem, thereby forcing people to play their hand.
I just want to see bison able to punish fools who run and do some more damage.
for HS/DR specifically, it’d be awesome if the speed is distance related. So if bison’s far away, it takes longer for stomp/dr to get to the opponent. On the otherhand, if bison’s closer, it should naturally be faster. This would also provide the overhead (kinda) mixup that some people’s been wanting.
It’s a drastic departure from the classic stomp mechanics though, so I’m not sure how well it’d be received.
ok so as opposed to the speed being varied depending on distance to always take the same amount of time you would make it a fixed speed? I say that because being that once you factor in distance, a fixed speed will mean it will take less time if you are closer even though you are at the same rate, this much is obvious.
or are you saying that it should be a near exponential difference meaning that the speed is increased or decreased based on distance? so for example if it was made to be faster the closer you are it would be more effective the closer you are to bison.
the second option seams to be the inverse of what we have now.
back walkers from close distance(it will force a block instead)
luck based BS like guile’s c.hk, chun-li’s c.hp, akuma’s s.hk, and etc. All of which right now makes HS whiff on certain timing(wtf O_o)
and it opens up possibility for:
overhead mixups
catching back-jumpers (depending on how fast it is from point blank)
not to mention it’ll discourage stupid use of stomp, like from full screen away trying to punish a fireball(which already doesn’t work because of jump-back)
another thing i would like since i am spending some training time learning it is to be able to mash crouching short for a 4 hit combo. currently bison mash combo is crouching jab(4 frame start up) but i would like it switched.
Balrog(boxer) get his 3 frame mash jabs and I think it really helps him with combos into headbutt. but us bison players have to perform a stinking 1 frame link! it’s just not right i tell you!
So i change my mind
my real wants are
-8 frame crouching fierce with juggle
-being able to mash crouching short
-5 frame start up on jump forward strong/strong so it will actually beat other people air to air. Ryu has soooo many juggles into ultra and to add insult to injury his jumping strong/strong beats bisons! amoongst other characters beating bison only juggle into ultra
I know it OP but since there is a lot of damage scale in this game how about scissor doesn’t knock down? Think about it scissor,hk combo or scissor xx cl.jab XXpc old school goodness.No one will random shoryu that.lol
ah that makes a lot of sense. I beat out Guile’s standing fierce yesterday and I jumped for joy, but this was from more than half screen away. I thought it was hilarious a I saw him get smushed with his fist in the air, bison hitting him at the tip of the standing fierce and just bouncing happily off.
Yeah so as far as fixing this, just give the EX headstomp better tracking. If you’re going to move back it should follow you and you should at least be forced to block taking the chip damage. I don’t see what’s wrong with that. If it has good tracking and someone’s walking back trying to get it to whiff, then they’ll just block and eat a bit of chip. I don’t get comboed for getting one of my most powerful specials beaten by walking back, and the other player doesn’t get a headstomp.
The follow up should be ambiguous or at least stay the same and do a ton of damage. It’s impossible to land in higher levels of play and it’s really just a matter of good luck when it happens. If I end up risking my ass to land it, potentially eating an ultra, it better do some damn good damage.
Scissors to ultra capcom! Give everyone in the game either a solid comboable ultra or give em each a bunch of elaborate and difficult options to do so! Comeback should be earned or made easy for everyone damnitt (I’m talking to you Sagat…or I guess you didn’t SEE that)
) and trying to bait it on their wakeup means you risk them jumping away and you have to play their stupid fireball game all over again.