A lot of good things here, i ecspecially agree with some points from DevilJin and CHenne made a few posts up. If there was guard break (which man why isn’t there!!!) Bison would be a lot more beast. To solve the ultra problem-- not having more than one option to combo into it-- why can’t they give Bison a target combo that pops up and let’s him get an ultra or ex move off? Like how Rufus gots. That would be sick!
I would like to be able to FADC his slide.
I would also like more control of the teleport like in CVS2, but keep the SF4 properties.
Give him a target combo that pops up and re-introduce guard break for next sf please (and alpha counters :P)…
well the target combo would have to be something that does not interfere with his pokes and also allows for him to charge at the same time, unless they make his ultra two quarter circles motion.
I personally want to see the psycho cannon. having an anti-air ultra by it self would be insane. literally you could not jump at bison.
if not as an ultra the psycho cannon as a super they need to add.
every character should have two supers. I hate this one super crap.
Amended. Looking at the above, I kinda feel that he definitely doesn’t need that much, but I can also see Guile still having a leg up on him with these changes. DR would still be weak against retreating air attacks and some anti-airs. Aside from that he’d just be better against fireballers not named Guile and he’d have a higher damage potential.
The only thing i agree with = 1 more ultra setup .
well those changes would help him yes, but it does not deal with one of his major weaknesses. that being that people just play against bison the same. just jump or walk back and keep running away and this forces bison to follow at a disadvantage. at this stage of the game the risk reward factor is definitely not on bisons’ side.
I mean isn’t it stupid that every match in championship mode or ranked or anyone with decent skill all plays the same? runaway and bait reversals or switch up to rush down at proper distance because bison’s defense is shit.
bison is supposed to be extremely offensive right? this implies that fighting him, even if your character is a defensive one like ryu or something then you should be FORCED to be drawn into a guessing game. yet the advantage is on the side of the defensive character which is not how it should be.
this is how is should be by bring drawn into bison’s mixups unavoidably and not having simple escapes that put bison at a disadvantage it actually evens the game out because just as bison must anticipate how to hit you, you too must anticipate how to counter him, which is not defensive but countering. however defensive characters, that is one that mostly play a reaction based game and bait you can still engage in this game and thus there is no problem.
if capcom can make simple runaway tactics easily punishable, forcing the other player to “play there hand” in-turn forcing a mind game, then bison will be balanced with the rest of, at least the better part of the cast, just so long as the reward risk factor is also equal on both sides.
clearly this game has a bias that needs to be corrected. I think this stands as a general criticism.
keep in mind it states that not only did it keep them in blockstun for a long time, but also went through them. So they nerfed it to have shit startup, not go through them, and not keep them in blockstun (ie-highly punishable). Why couldn’t they have just nerfed 1 or 2 things, rather than EVERY USEFUL THING ABOUT IT. Seriously, it’s the worst move he has. It’s an escape and chip tool, NOTHING MORE. I would’ve at least like the lp version to be an anti air, sorta like how honda’s ex headbutt works (at least let me trade in those situations, or something).
btw, what does OP mean?
Also, I HATE the throwing in this game, period. Throw techs are gay, so many times they don’t work. I’ve tried to throw people, and my throw wiffs then they throw me, or something similar. And why do throws do SO MUCH DAMAGE? I mean, when you can do more damage with a throw than some characters combos, wtf? And they need to bring back tech escapes of throws, so you’re not stuck lying down on the ground like a fucking buffoon afterwards.
Safe fall was pretty shitty in other games. Not really reliable.
Also, throws don’t do much damage in this game. Play ST and get back to me on that.
yeah ST throws are just broken looking now in terms of damage and have like zero start up.
if anything bison should have a longer throw range or kara throws like ken. this would help him at close range with harassment.
Bison has no normals that move him forward. Thus, he can never Kara.
What in the name of god are you saying? Claw is like, the best lowtier character ever. BROKEN? WTF?!?!?
And Bison is still okay, man. He just needs a little bit more damage output to be frightening. Atm he is like a poor man’s Rufus with better pokes.
For everything else, read this:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=5960906&postcount=8
regarding throws, I think bison’s throw is fine as is. He’s already has far reach throws, both of which knocks back a good distance, supplementing to his strong corner game.
but I think the SF4 throw system is pretty iffy, because it punishes the defense for trying to anticipate throws. Tech attempts don’t count unless the other person’s throw was already initiated. If you anticipate it and tech a couple frames before they do the throw(delayed timing, lag, whatever), your throw whiffs, makes you lean forward, and theirs connects. But DS is right, at least throws are low damage and low stun in this game.
UhHHHHHHHHH:confused: throwing is weak in this game and because of that it is part of the turtling “problem” in SF4. They’re so easy to tech for 0 damage while resetting the offense vs defense back to neutral. But there are other ways to fix this problem besides buffing throws…
I was mulling over the idea of making all <- -> charge supers into qcfx2s. That could certainly help balance things and provide more options. Im not sure how anyone could say it would be overpowered for Bison/Honda/Blanka etc unless you would be willing to admit it is overpowered for Ryu and Sagat.
Bison’s ultra is quite good IMO ok there isnt many setups for it but look at the damage it can do especially to akuma. I loove using it against shoto’s as i just just do c/lkx3 into ultra as they tend to srk after the 3rd hit so my ultra gets em works almost everytime.
I do agree with the every char should have 2 supers though bisons should be like a super PC that would be sweet.
Everything does damge on akuma. The beta crusher honestly wouldn’t be broken now it was broken because on top of the sheniagans of the headstomp/dr you couldn’t pin him down.Now that everyone has harnessed the high level tactic of walking a step forward or just doing the moonwalk I think he needs the beat crusher to close the gap on runaways.Or atleast have the threat of being able to close the gap.Especially with such large stages.Just cause it was OP before does not mean it would be OP now.
i completely agree. Hell, the psycho crusher doesn’t even need to have ALL the aspects of the beta crusher. I for one think that it should go through people, rather than just stop dead on block, allowing your opponent to annihilate you. I look at other characters with attacks that launch at an opponent (tatsu’s, jesus kicks, hazanshu, for example), and none of them leave you THAT fucking open to punishment, or at least allow you to pull off tricks afterwards (tatsu->srk/throw, jesus kick->overhead, trip, etc). Your opponent blocks your PC, and you’re eating damage, thus rendering it completely fucking useless. Even in a combo, when you know it will hit, it’s still better to SK.
I’ve thought the same thing a few times. With the way that ultra’s are pretty essential to the match, it would make sense to make supers and ultras 2QCF’s then p/k. Look at some of the horrible characters, they all have shit ultra/super commands (Guile and Vega I am looking at you).
and for the record, Vega still sucks ass. Sakura is a better low tier character.
I wouldn’t mind seeing ex moves cancel his slide. So you can make an opponent think ur hitting them with a slide, then bam pop out an ex HS as you get close.
Anywho, I still think they need a chick bison (Mandy Bison!!!). Hell, there are NO evil women in SFIV; everybody with boobs is a goody two shoes. Even Viper isn’t really evil, although ur meant to think she is at first.
Also, I know it’s more of a problem with me being stupid, but I hate when I exHS on wakeup, and the opponent is crossing over, and bison just jumps backwards and whiffs. I know I should just PC or DR instead, but that shit should hit.
I know someone who would disagree with you about sakura and vega. He used to main Sakura and was really good with her. He switched to Vega and says everything about him except for damage is better. Once you know how to zone her out she is real easy to deal with.
the issue with bison’s ultra is that it it sucks to land and yes given that it’s a charge move that limits the kind of options you can land it with.
that’s why what someone else said on here before was a good idea. they should allow you to roman canel into ultra from SK or PC. perhaps it has to be a HK SK and land the first hit and not the tip of his boot meaning you would really have to get it in there. but that along with whatever damage you did prior to that would be some awesome damage.
again better PC is a must.
I want the PC to be able to anti-air people who jump back and kick/punch which would solve the runaway problem.
I think by solving the runaway problem with a faster PC and having a better way to combo into ultra like SK cancel, bison would be pretty damn good, based on those two things alone.
you know…despite all the fancy suggestions everyone made, some of which came from myself, I think all bison needs is 2 things:
- higher priority on j.mp, so you can actually beat people in the air with it(especially on the way up)
- shave 2 frames off c.mp’s startup, so it’s 5 instead of 7…in exchange shorten the reach on the move
the first item would drastically limit your opponent’s game when bison has revenge meter, no more free jump-ins on bison all day long
the second item shoots the bnb damage up, c.lk, s.lk, c.mp, c.mp xx hk.scissors. It also provides another high priority poke, that would hopefully deal with some of bison’s problem against zoning normals(sagat’s s.hk, akuma’s s.hk, chun-li’s everything, etc)
these two changes alone would make bison absolutely awesome
That’s pretty pointless to reduce cr.MP length to 5 frame and shortening the range. Crouching MK is already 5 frame and at a pretty good range and cr.MP only reaches out a little further than cr.MK.
The best ways to improve Dictator is bringing him back to beta Psycho Crusher and give him a new up.MP attack. The only things I’ve hit with that crap is a super jumping C.Viper and another Dictator.
Cr.HP is the only thing I would like to really fasten a bit. Take it from 12 (0.4 secs) frame start up to 8 (0.26 secs) or 9 (0.3 secs) frame start up.