I wish capcom would have created a character similar to bison, lets have another psycho power wielder in sf IV dash. also his original concept design in which he wears a golden winged helmet needs to come back. as for balance, I’m not sure exactly what they could do for bison, I hope they do tweak with the game play a bit in dash, specifically making the game faster. I hope bison’s psycho crusher is faster and has a different animation so he’s more streamlined like in ST just because its more stylish.
and also yes, I think a successor to the lordship of shadoloo would be great seeing as bison was supposed to have been killed by akuma.
again enough with this baseless ed hominem bullsh1t. the idea your statement tries to imply isn’t even true, and the question you raise isn’t even a valid connection.
thinking about ways to elevate bison’s tier status or better balence out the character one could say does not in any way relate one bit to the abilities of the players that are discussing it. a truly great el fourte player who can school 99% of the people he comes across would none the less be playing a lower tier character then say compared to ryu. the players abilities, good or bad, don’t have any baring on the tier status because there is a difference between a character and the player.
now someone brought something up before about the HS being punishable to a point that seams excessive where as the DR is not.
when one considers rufus and how safe his moves are aside from messia it would not irrational to say that the HS should have the same recovery as DR is missed being that bison is about offense.
The day Guile got an overhead in HD Remix…that was an amazing day. The first time anyone’s ever had a full screen overhead in SF. The day Guile got a slow ass short ranged overhead in SFIV…that was Tuesday. :lol: So hopefully Bison’s overhead won’t be a Tuesday overhead.
-cr.HP launches on hit
-teleport has less recovery
-DR breaks glass
-EX Knee does not knock down on hit, giving link opportunity
-Superconductoralelectromagnetism
after putting some thought into it, i apologize to exogen for sounding like i was just adding more to the ‘get better’ stuff. I was on a bit of a high horse because I had gotten better in a short amount of time and began to feel that it was all there really was to it, improvement and working out kinks in personal play…
…anyways, I know this is absurd but scissor kicks into an ultra wouldn’t be crazy. Why? Because its his main special and so many other characters all have ways of using a simple combo to land an ultra. Sagat, Ryu, C. Viper, Abel, Ken, rufus, cammy, fei long, the list goes on and on. why limit dictator’s ultra combo to an air to air move when its not even given the proper priority? Should beat out a good deal of other air to air moves for sure. maybe switch it so that his special must be juggled into and his ultra can be comboed through ex scissors. ultra can do slightly more damage than the special but not as much as it currently does and the special can do slightly less damage than before.
so yeah to back up some of rioting soul’s suggestions and add some more day dreaming/wishful thinking:
-cr.hp that is as effective as Guile’s, Sakura’s and others.
-teleport with seth’s recovery and more options to be able to do things out of them a la sim
-a DR that breaks armor would be truly badass and not a lot to ask for but we kind of already have this with EX DR.
-it’d be interesting if Bison had some sort of Raul Julia esque purple electricity as a sort of projectile. Maybe similar to some of Rose’s moves or Blanka’s elec.
-an overhead for sure.
-hands after a landed headstomp is a guaranteed land as a sort of target combo, damage can be scaled back so that the headstomp plus hands does as much damage as a lk. scissors, but with the hands you can combo into something afterwards. Total damage potential here could be a little more than an EX headstomp.
-hands that can hit both in front and backwards
-i like how in MCV2 you have the option of teleporting into the air.
-regular headstomp but the EX version works as a vertical psychocrusher hitting on the way up. lots of recovery for balance so if you whiff it you can be punished as much as a whiffed shoryuken.
-ex armor
Bison needing an overhead in SFIV is more of a SFIV needs work thing than Bison really needing an overhead. I personally think Bison’s offense should be strong enough to not warrant needing an overhead. Bison just needs an overhead because SFIV’s throw break system is super lenient and easy to option select with. Bison didn’t need an overhead in ST cuz he had instant overhead and touch of death combos. He didn’t need one in CVS2 (even when not in A groove) because of guard break (Bison would be top tier in this game if there was guard break) and throws that force you to stand up to tech. Weak ass baby SFIV Bison suffers cuz every other old school character got “keep the momentum going guys!” overheads.
Viper offensively is basically a better Bison since she does have that overhead to break up crouch blockers (especially when it comes to charge characters being assholes). Well…that and like 9 other reasons and the only thing Bison has to counter is safer strings (that do no damage). It doesn’t make or break her offensive game though. It’s not like it’s 3rd Strike and you get free high damage combos at the right distance. It’s risky to even hit people with it on wake up because of SFIV’s crazy reversal system and unless you hit it on counter hit it’s tough to combo it into c.MP, MP knuckle. Which does decent damage if you can do it but it’s not a game breaker for Viper either. She definitely wouldn’t go down a tier without the overhead. It just compliments her as a character a bit more in a game where people are just looking to option select break your throws all the time.
In 3S you also had to worry about parries so throws generally connected back to back just because of the extra stuff you had to worry about on wake up. In SFIV the option select works so much better since you’re just worried about blocking and teching and that covers just about anything anyone can do to you other than crossing you up. Basically making the game a crappy CVS2. Which is not bad for a first version of a sequel.
word deviljin. you’re right, bison needing an overhead is because SFIV does needs a great deal of balance work. Keep Bison a high risk/reward character but he just needs a stronger straightforward offense. increase his blockstun for throw traps and give him some more brutal combo opportunities. I don’t care if his life bar needs to be reduced like Akumas to give him such a strong offensive, but if that’s what he is, an offensive character, he needs to be given all the proper strengths in that field to make him a force to reckon with.
Anyways, has there been any word on Capcom regarding Bison? I’d really like to hear what the developers think about the game and especially our favorite psycho-char. I’ve heard about things regarding the dash…I really hope we get this ASAP.
You make really good posts about Dictator, I remember seeing you post about Dictator in Sabin’s Japan QA thread which I 100% agree with.
SF4 system itself introduced a lot problems for Dictator like the throw teching, I mean even in ST, at least the person who initiated throw got the throw (even if it was teched) and could keep the momentum going.
But yes, if the throw could only be teched forwards, backwards or neutral, it would be a lot better.
I’m not sure if a UOH would solve everything, it would inevitably boil down to who had shit that can link/combo off the UOH.
Just a quick top of my head “wishlist” (if you can call it that) without going too crazy:
Be able to FADC all his normal moves. Some moves like Slide can’t even be FADCed which I think sucks, 2 EX bar is already pretty damn expensive, not to mention you can’t even combo 2 Hard hits together (like st. Hp, FADC st. Hp), so why not give him this ability?
I understand that PC and SK are considered “on the ground”, this is so they can be FADCed, if they were truly airborne, you couldn’t FADC them, but I think that being thrown out of EX PC and EX SK is kind of ridiculous. Somehow make it so it isn’t as easy to throw them out of it (especially if they are late in the animation, like right before the kicks come out in SK)
A better tracking HS, as it is now, it’s like a slow dumbfire missile, ST’s was like a fucking laser sometimes, you could snipe people a full screen away if they were jumping.
Skull Diver needs to be like ST, as it is now, you can only hit the Skull Diver in the direction where the Headstomp hit, you can’t even turn it around.
A variable DR, like initiating the DR with Lp would be a shorter distance hop (preset distance), Mp longer (also preset), and Hp would be the way DR is now, this makes it nicer for advancing forward but still having more mobility options.
-Better PC, as it is now, the only advantage it has over SK in combos is stun, that’s it. Other than that, all versions have garbage recovery and startup. Either make it travel faster or reward the people who do put it in combos with even more damage/stun.
Unless they change stuff like adding a guard meter (in which Bison could targeted as a guard break character or something), Dictator should be overall rewarded with more Stun I think.
Those are just some ideas, I’m pretty sure there’s nothing terribly game breaking (like having cr. hp be the Jesus punch or something), it’s just more options for Dictator players.
I’d like it if they just added more damage to his combos and gave him more of a comeback ability with a far easier ultra setup. And good god if I land two air to air mp’s and hit em with an EX psycho or scissors that should do far more damage than it does currently, its a really poor reward for the effort.
This is easily the most OP of all your suggestions, and is a similar suggestion to my previous post. This implies a much faster start-up on headstomp, which acts as an overhead. Fast start-up overheads would be a nightmare to block against, giving Bison the ability to knockdown and do huge damage almost at will. But, your suggestion isn’t as OP as say, making Cammy’s Cannon Strike an overhead, which seems to be a common suggestion thrown out in the Cammy forums.
The next most OP move would be to make s.hk juggle, because that basically gives Bison Ryu’s lp dp trade/hit into ultra, on top of Bison’s other tools.
I thought having the only 2 frame normal would also be pretty bad, but it’s a similar situation to sitting at a +1 frame advantage now, and c.lk does poor damage anyway. So it’s bad, but not as broken as your other two suggestions, IMO.
obviously though, nerfing it to the extent they did here just doesn’t work for the simple reason that it limits him to much.
also what is the problem with having him have little recovery anyway? I mean think about it, isn’t he supposed to be all about offense with little in the way of defense?
making his crusher have good fast priority and start-up won’t make him broken for the simple fact that anyone with a DP or start-up invulnerability move can just counter on reaction for people that just wiff it out. just so long as it does not have start-up invulnerability it self, you still have to think about it.
and if the PC was safe on block it really would only be useful against corner traps and getting away from geif.
but this is a good thing because bison has to come back to hit you given his lack of projectiles and geif is damn near broken anyway especially against characters like bison who can do little else except DR and kick him to death.
I agree PC was nerfed hard, and I wish it would be improved in some way, but there’s a fine line between a good move and an OP move, which is hard to balance.
Bison’s PC is pretty unique in that it passes through the opponent on block or hit and it stays on screen for a long time. Reducing the recovery so that it’s relatively safe would cause at least two problems: a) It would be a ridiculously good meaty. b) It would be good as a crossup through your opponent in the corner, especially on block (because PC cancels early at the wall). In both cases, Bison would probably end up with something like +10 frame advantage or knockdown right next to the opponent, which is pretty OP.
The current PC at 14 frame startup is definitely not dp-able on reaction. Besides, not everyone has an invincible hitting reversal, so balancing towards the few characters who do is not really a good idea.
I am inclined to agree that PC should have a faster startup. In order to balance this, I was thinking the move could have very low blockstun, so Bison could be hit out of his PC mid-block, kind of like Guile’s c.roundhouse. Because it’s armor breaking, people will not be able to FA it, but they should be able to jab it or something.
All of this is really just mental masturbati*n though.
I don’t know about lessening the block stun. the reason I say this is because when I was talking about DPing it on reaction I was not really thinking of it at close range. that was more on the side of it having invulnerability.
from a distance you can DP it even at mid, and simple jab it even like blanka’s cannon ball.
making it faster and have faster start up would make it more formidable.
I here you though on the meaty crossups and corner trap issues though.
there is a fine line indeed but hey just incrementally upgrade it. there has not be a better way to make it effective. why can’t we just get an ST style crusher?
