Gotta be blocking in order to do a reversal. So yes, this game is a lot more defensive at higher levels. You have no idea how much butt clenching I’ve done in this game. It’s ridiculous.
Bison has to go defensive at certain points in the matchup because if he loses the life lead, he’s not getting it back unless the other dude decides to fuck it all up.
Yeah, what DS said should make a lot of sense to you guys.
If you don’t have the life lead, you may not have a good chance of winning.
Let’s face it, there’s a good quarter amount of people on the roster that can easily come back with the Ultra. It’s either going to even the playing field or put you at a disadvantage. This is something we have to be cautious about and not get too carried away or reckless during the match up. A lot of people aren’t going to try and focus your moves too much as opposed to focusing projectiles and such to build up revenge meter. So most of the time you’ll probably drop someone down halfway and they may land the Ultra to bring you down to around the same stamina level.
I do still wish he had a little easier at dropping the Ultra but his character design is a little different. I guess they may have left his options to become risky decisions because that’s just how he is. FA2/FA3 are still the best ways to land Ultra IMO.
Bison should have a slight upper hand against all the characters with lower stamina than he does which is at least most of the ladies, Dhalsim, Akuma and Seth.
Yet, unless the opponent messes up, you are forced to fight him with that handicap. You cannot win the round unless there is a time out or the opponent’s life reaches 0. Usually waiting for a time out is impractical, so the only option that is left is to fight back.
Specifically, it is breaking the flow of the game in your favor that this game is focused on. It is NOT focused on defense. I have never won the game just by holding db all day with any character. That is why I don’t think this game is defensive game, you can’t “defend” your way to victory. You can’t counter-poke your way to victory unless you follow it up with something. By saying that this game is defensive in nature is, in my opinion, using a term that is far too broad and includes things that do not characterize this game. It is focused around one TYPE of defensive play, the reversal.
I think the people who think this game is defensive are probably using that term as a generic bucket because SFIV has a unique system that makes each round harder to win as you get closer to winning: as the opponent takes damage, they gain super and revenge meter so their damage output (i.e. threat) increases. The only time when their options become limited for losing life is when they no longer have enough life to fa absorb an attack. Because of this phenomenon, it becomes increasingly risky to continue the rushdown as the rushdown becomes more effective…it’s kind of a paradox.
Unless, of course, people are referring to “defensive” in a context that I haven’t thought of before. I definitely see the applicability of “defending space” and “building meter” in this game, because they are so pivotal, but I would argue that both are more offensive in nature in this game…controlling space has always been offensive in all fighting games and building meter is a primarily offensive (but sometimes neutral with dr whiffs, snake strike, etc), not defensive as in 3rd strike with full screen c mp.
Defending your way to victory isnt just holding down back. Poking them as they get to you, ie fighting for that space, so you dont go strait to the corner is part of defence. Blocking is a skill as well as keeping them away. I cant think of any other way to describe it but in any case its not just sitting there.
And the point of my post was that if you change the other characters that keep you from being too offensive that should even out the risk reward making Bison a better character. Surely they wont keep DP into Ultra, and if they do Im sure it wont do nearly as much damage.
Well good for him. He probably would of taken 1st if it wasnt for Bison’s shortcommings.
Not really. Jeron is a smart player and would scrape 98% of this forum free. If he knew the matchups a lot better, he’d have won. However, he lost to Marn’s Rufus and he had the match pretty much in the bag. He beat Sanford in tourney also and Sanford isn’t exactly a free win.
Also, I’ve seen a vid of your Bison. I can literally tell you that you do about a million things wrong with Bison that you don’t do right. But since you guys don’t care about improving and instead choose to bitch about Bison, I’ll leave you all alone and exit this shitty forum.
Those vids were made when I first got SF4. I have improved 100x since then. You act as if everyone here is saying Bison is bottom tier or something. There are a few things that would make Bison a better overall character. Now you are talking about different level of players. I bet J.Wong could destroy 99% of this forum with Bison too but this isnt about that.
I actually won this morning vs a ken with neutral jMP. I also love doing it after I win the first round.
A lot of people here seem to think that because me and several others are “bitching” about bison, we must therefore suck at him. Not tooting my own horn, but I’ve gotten 3 bisons to G1 in less than a month each, and almost ALL of my losses come from me making a stupid mistake (not charging enough for a move, or teleporting rather than ultra, etc), or from stupid online bullshit (tech throw not coming out, laggy as fuck, etc). My footsies are great, my strategy is great (anybody else here double perfect Sagats in G1???),and for the record, I love Bison. Anybody who wants to disagree or argue or tell me to ‘get better’ can feel free to challenge me on this account or iiiM Bisoniii on XBL.
However, I do see the room for improvement. He has a handful of moves and specials with ZERO use. Sure, you could cHP a sagat elbow IF YOU GET THE TIMING RIGHT, or neutral jMP Ken after a DP/ultra, or chip damage a guy to death with PC, but other than that, those three moves alone are fucking USELESS.
PC is ONLY used as an ex, or in some extreme cases as anti air (gotta be somewhat telepathic on that one), and even then it’s easy as fuck to counter.
HS is hella useful, but at higher levels it becomes far too easy to deal with. SLIGHT movements make it whiff ffs.
And it’s obvious that Ultra’s need to be fix’d, PERIOD. I mean, look at the top chars, and the worst ones. Characters with hard to land ultra’s are just plain garbage (Vega and Guile for instance). Fuck, I can land Ryu’s with just a simple jHK, or any number of useful ways. Same with Sagat, Rufus, and several others. Bison has TWO ways to do it, and both are risky as fuck, and require you to outthink your opponent.
I just have a problem with the fact he is nothing more than a scissor kick factory, combined with some mk/hk footsies and DR/HS shenanigans. Virtually every top Bison player plays virtually the exact same style. That’s why Mirror Matches suck so bad.
Sovi3t, please if you want creditibility on your skills do not use online ranking as a form of doing this. Championship mode is just a grind, like an MMO.
I agree, somewhat. While online doesn’t give you 100% of the experience you need, it still is an excellent judge of skills. Me raping the fuck out of 99% of who I come across wouldn’t change just cuz I was facing them in RL.
And fyi, there are no arcades even remotely close to where I live (about an hour away from Toronto), and when I did go to local tourneys, I raped (I lost one here awhile ago only because I had to play the BEST sagat in Ontario, on a ps3 PAD).
As stated, anybody can feel free to challenge me to tell me what I am so apparantly doing wrong (as stated before, I don’t really feel I am a bad Bison, I am quite good…I just feel bison needs MORE, or that the top tier characters need LESS).
Jab psycho can be +3 at max range and can be used against some characters on occation. Not too useful but good to know. Its def helped in the Sim match.
that was pretty much my ‘extreme cases’ scenario. I only use it if certain characters are jumping backwards, or for chip damage.
Ps, no one aside from DS is saying anyone is bad. I myself am pretty terrible, but I do disagree with some things because personally I dont want Bison to be an easy mode character like it started out when SF4 first launched. Some of the suggestions sound like too much. His current AA is better than he had in any game I can think of and his psycho could always be thrown on its start up. I dont feel these should change.
If I were to balance Bison and other characters were to get worse I would only give him one of these two things. A faster psycho crusher (only Ex version needs to have inv on startup) or an ultra closer to his ST super that lets him go through fireballs. To have both of these would be too much. As far as headstomp, people already use it more than any other game Bison is in and I dont want to see people spaming the crap out of it. If anything maybe SLIGHTLY less recovery to makr the punish stricter.
Actually, you weren’t at any toronto or Hamilton tournaments worth mentioning where you placed high.
And if you were, nobody noticed you. You were probably lurking in the background wallflowering it up. Oh look, results:
1 sabin
2 JSMaster
3 temujin
4 veasna
5 JasonK
5 karamba
7 arcade legend
7 harmony
9 ChiRithy
9 Kymah
9 Manaboy
9 spiral guy
13 FlightWing
13 Tyler Shek
13 saco jerico
13 led hendrix
17 rebelo
17 davero
17 WillDestroya
17 freddy loco
17 dice01
17 bobsaget
17 shane walker
17 song
25 lawrence
25 tom jung
25 Buddah
25 boss
25 mahir
25 tsuroka
25 jimmy bones
25 tatenda
33 Danvan
33 Wilson
33 John Trann
33 Woolie
33 kamikaze
33 nguman
33 jessie r
33 Ryan Tong
33 Pierre
33 bill307
33 minus
33 brett
33 ivan s
33 regecide
33 ItalDaniel
33 RXS
49 jmac
49 Alex W
49 kyper1
49 CB
49 rene (DQ)
49 annabelle (DQ)
49 Tactix
49 contra (DQ)
49 Theli
49 chris thean
49 dennis tran
49 chris tse
49 don nguyen (DQ)
49 XXL
49 michael a
49 john noree (DQ)
STREET FIGHTER IV (46 Entrants) (Hamilton)
1 SpiralGuy
2 C-Royd
3 Mosh
4 Traininho
5 Chaos2d
5 RPGv2
7 Calvin
7 Arcade Legend
9 JDK_Mark
9 DaFlipMastaXV
9 Blitzman
9 ShaneWalker
13 JS Master
13 Buddah
13 Flightwing
13 YellowS4
17 Jaywang
17 Quan
17 Danvan
17 Rebelo
17 s0vi3t
(There’s more after 17th. He didnt come last)
Edit: Yeah DS to answer your question, I got no clue who this guy is. But apparantly he’s really good online!
I never seen your name anywhere in the top ten for any GTA/Hamilton tournaments i’d doubt you rape all these local tourneys
i just look at the fact that so many high level bisons gave up on him (ppl from this forum ffs).
and Matation, I agree. I don’t want EVERY change, just one or two. I just feel that the non EX PC is fucking broken, and 99% of the people here seem to agree. And HS, I don’t want it to be magic, just a little less fucked (I think that whiffed HS should recover AS FAST AS a whiffed DR)
edit: I got knocked out by mosh
don’t go to toronto tourneys often, seeing as I don’t see why i need to drive all the way out there to play a handful of matches. Too expensive IMHO
any more Hamilton tourneys, feel free to lemme know. I never hear about them often (all ONE of them)
fuck it. just give bison a c. anti-air that can be used on reaction. this will give him more defense.
make the HS have better tracking against air targets or not be punishable if missed any more then DR is.
make the PC faster for sure and start-up invulnerability is a big maybe.
give me a real effective way to combo into his ultra that can be used both offensively and defensively.
fix the overlap telaport ultra problem.
possiibly psycho banish.
if they did all that then I think no one would be in any position to complain at all.
Judging by the nature of this thread you would be wrong.
And someone would probably question your ability to play the game.
And possibly your manhood.
Why is this topic still going on??
because we’d rather dream up things in the hope that capcom will add them to dash rather than focusing on matchups, advice, and helping each other get better with the tools we (dont) have.
wishlist: for everyone to get as good as kuma, neurosis, andre and then some with the tools we have now before making dash wishlists
not to diss on the thread, but i think its a little too soon. i dont think a majority of us have mastered the tools already at hand and i dont understand how you can point out the shortcomings of something you cannot wield to the full potential.