The only things I’d really want is for cr.HP to be faster, and for Bison to have another way to land his Ultra.
I think the consensus is that when ppl say invincibility, it’s more on startup than overall. Getting thrown out of a PC is gay.
agreed. I hate that most non charge characters can get an ultra during a jumpin, or at least during a combo. Hell, even charge characters can usually get it during a combo or jumpin. He’s right up there with Blanka and Honda for having a shitty ultra setup.
I see what you mean, and it is annoying. But it could be done in ST and HDR too so im used to it.
And no other guy, the matchup is 5-5 against Sagot 
This site would disagree with you:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/
As would its updated rankings:
Agreed, a faster cr.HP would be great.
Not too bothered about ways to land an ultra, it would be nice but I would probably dislike the game even more if ways to land ultra amongst characters actually increased in the revision just because some characters can land theirs easily in the current game.
Infact i think ways to land ultra should be decreased amongst all characters, or to weaken them because I hate the fact that once certain characters get ultra, you have to be really careful as stuff becomes alot more risky, IMO anyway.
To the ultra issues, id be content if it just started a little bit faster so it could be used reliable as AA. I much preferred the mega psycho crusher of previous games to his flippy bitty ultra he has now.
I wish his super did that instead
For whatever reason my phone refuses to access the site but I do see “October 2008” in the title so I hope you arent showing me the old tier list. The most recent one I saw had it at 5-5. Most of the matches were at 5-5 actually, except against Guile were he looses 7-3 and Chun where he also looses 6-4. Apparently he beats all console characters except Gen too. When I get home Ill look it up.
All I have to say is look at the next tier list coming out or how many Dictator made it to sbo.I think 1 or the sf4 power rankings and look how many players that place play Dictator.All of the “official” tier list in eventhubs are outdated and a new one post sbo and post evo are needed.In the next list Dictator will fall a bit for many reasons basically the gig is up and his shenianigans can be easily averted, trouble landing ultra in high level play, and he has tougher match ups against console chars namely Fei ,Cammy,Rose, and Gen.As opposed to Rufus who went up cause he maims most of the console chars.Abel will rise and Akuma will rise to the same level japanese players have him as.And Seth will rise also.Because people are finally learning how to block a complete block string or atleast not get hit as much in sf4.
Very credible source(not really).
Anyway, the only real Bison player at EVO was Andre(TwistedJago). He placed fairly well. Does that shift Bison’s tiers? No. It’s not like there were a billion Bison players at EVO.
I mean, really, are you guys still gonna keep crying about Bison or are you gonna stick with your char and excel with him? Headpress still plays him and he does pretty well with Bison. I tier whore in every game possible, but SF4 is balanced enough for all chars to compete.
Remember when Viper was thought of as low tier? What now? She’s high mid at best and just mid at worst.
I feel that you guys are just playing Bison wrong and just don’t push the right buttons in the right situations. Bison goes 5:5 with the whole cast. Guile being his only one bad matchup.
It’s like how in America, Bison is shit in ST, but in Japan it’s debatable that Bison is top tier or high mid. It’s obvious that American players are just playing the char wrong.
I wanna work on my Bison, but eventually take it to EVO. I know I will get obliterated, but still wanna see how it is.
And yes, my Bison is not amazing, but I am hella dirty with him. Feel free to challenge me on 360 anytime.
Can’t I do both???
meh, it’s good when it works properly, but is still too broken. It doesn’t need to be godly perfect like some people want it to be, but it does need fixing. PC too.
Balrog too, and even Zengief and Sagat obviously. Chun Li if you’re impatient too.
I don’t play him wrong, most of my losses come to SRK FADC combos from Ryu/Sagat, or vs Balrog and Guile. I can fuck up pretty much anybody else. My mindgames be crazy scary. But although he IS 5:5, it’s the 6:4’s that hurt, and unfortunately the characters that are 6:4 are so strong vs almost everyone.
It’s not that people want Bison to be better, to be honest, it’s that the higher up characters be more level. It’s shitty fighting a Ryu and knowing you can be ultra’d almost anytime, and yet you have to fight so hard to land one, and as good as your footsies are, your anti air counters that fact (especially considering your footsies aren’t THAT much better than other characters).
Aside from SK loops to own ground game (which is still somewhat defeatable by most other characters), and HS doing ridiculous damage IF you can find an opponent stupid enough to fall for whatever trick you may be trying (combined with the fun of whiffing DRs), and great MK/HK, you don’t have much to compare to characters with multiple Ultra setups, equally good footsies, better combos, higher damage combos, superior anti air (which hinders your already weakened HS/DR abilities), moves with better invincibility, and better distance move.
Sad to say that SRKs and Fireballs pretty much make a character in this game (giving two of the best zoning tools to one character kinda makes them beastly), but it’s also sorta accepted.
It’s like how in America, Bison is shit in ST, but in Japan it’s debatable that Bison is top tier or high mid. It’s obvious that American players are just playing the char wrong.
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Yeah, DPs are really good in this game, but that’s inevitable. DPs are always gonna be good. Invul frames are just too good.
Bison goes 5:5 with those chars you mentioned, btw.
I got 17th at EVO, does that count for anything :sad:
i like how there are about three times as many threads in the Bison forum about shortcomings and bad matchups as there are in the Vega forum
yeah the real issue is DP’s. lets forget about the HS tracking debate for a moment because as much as I would like to see a bit more tracking on HS I will admit that I think it is debatable.
what to me is CLEARLY not debatable is the speed of his PC being complete trash and just not an effective move like it was in past games.
it needs to be faster for sure and have a much faster start-up as well. I think we can all pretty much agree on that much.
now as for the issue of the invincibility frame on PC start-up, I said this originally because I was thinking that it would be a good idea against any character with invincible start-up as well. for instance a DP or a cannon spike. what this would mean is that if I go for PC when they DP or whatever out moves cancel and no one gets hit but bison flys forward and gets farther away unless he is in the corner in which case he will get punished.
of they DP early then bison punishes because of invincibility frame.
now I’m not sure if he really needs this but I think it would be nice. but I would like to see if someone can take this line of reasoning farther and argue for this.
again I think we agree that faster PC with also faster start-up or without invincibility on start-up is a must just to make the damn move actually useful.
now as for the c. HP being faster. well I’m not sure how it would be if dictator had an effective anti-air that would be busted on reaction. the hit boxes on that thing are nothing like guile or a shoto cause he doesn’t hit you on top but kind of in front of him. needless to say having it be faster would make more of a use for c. HP aside from surprise pokes or anticipation which is all it’s really good for now.
just remember that by adding that you would be giving dictator more defense and is that going to make him unbalanced? it might. then again many defensive characters have great offensive strengths in this game like rog for instance or guile. if shoto’s have it why not bison? or is that going to far?
to me it just seems like a wasted move. You ONLY use it for chip damage, and for escaping via Ex. Other than that, you have MUCH better options, and normal version PCs are almost non existent, even in combos.
I just hate that it gets thrown. If you wanna throw SKs, fine. That would help deal with his amazing loop ground game. Making opponents guess between PC and SK coming at them would make him more fun to play, and increase his use
The hitbox is crap on it anyways, increasing the speed of it would help, but not so much as to make him overpowered. Other characters still would have WAY better cHPs. I’d love to see it be a one hit launcher, or at LEAST a 2 hit normal (something Bison is lacking, which sucks).
They made peace with their suckiness when it was still arcade only. We haven’t yet. I figure we’re bitching about as much as they did, overall though.
Oh yeah, I forgot you placed that high. Ok, TWO Bisons that placed high. This forum needs to eat dicks sometimes.
Anyway, c.fierce isn’t as bad as you guys make it out to be. It’s good against hurricane kicks when you’re crouching. It’s good for a surprise poke FADC throw. If you land that meaty and on counter hit, you get a free FADC s.short x2 s.rh combo. Free damage. Your pick.
As for psycho crusher, he’s been getting thrown out of it for years. Happens in ST also. It’s also easily baitable and easily punished on the recovery. You guys are practically asking for CE Bison here. Not happening.
You have full screen EX psycho crusher which is practically a frame trap and forces the c.short or throw mixup on people that block. EX psycho crusher gets you out of enough shit already. Again, you guys are asking for too much out of a lenient char.
Haha sorry. To be fair though I haven’t contributed all that much here anyway so who gives a fuck about me. (and full results were never posted since they lost the brackets (?))
There are a couple things I like about c. HP. It’s pretty good at stopping Sagat’s annoying j. MP elbow. Sometimes it trades though (still in Bison’s favor), but I’ve beaten it clean many times. Of course it still needs to be done fairly anticipatory, fuck being able to react to stuff like that online. And it just encourages Sagat to turtle more instead of jump…
I also like using it against Dhalsims that get a little too spammy with s. HP. At full-screen distance you can beat his limbs clean with a random c. HP and tell him to stop doing that. Not the most useful thing in the world, but if you’ve been pushed out to full-screen it’s something to do… and it pretty much HAS to be done at full-screen, any shorter distance it gets beaten/trades (again, in your favor). s. MK is more reliable from full-screen in this situation I think…
The other fun thing you can do with an anti-air c. HP that actually hits is FADC dash under the falling opponent and crossunder them! Shenanigans like that are only gonna work once though and I’m not sure it’s worth 2 bars, but yeah. Plus there’s not enough time to get a charge so even if you do get them to block the wrong way you can’t do much off it except for like c. LP x3, s. LK, s. HK.
c. HP - the ultimate “hey, I think this move has a use! Wait… nah, still kinda sucks. But at least it isn’t as bad as neutral j. MP!” move.
Oh Jesus Christ, neutral j.mp is so horrible. Why Capcom, why?!
This dammit. I think the influx of Emo Bisons has to do with the fact that players would much rather blame Bison’s weaknesses than their own lack of skill. Sure it sucks to lose, but at the end of the day, you’re not gonna get better with Bison (or any character for that matter) if you don’t acknowledge why you lost, and work to improve your strengths and weaknesses.
I truly believe that the player ultimately decides how good a character can be. Just because Bison doesn’t have a fireball or a DP doesn’t mean he can’t hang. There are games where I can honestly say that I got my ass handed to me, but instead of blaming it on shit balance or something similar, I’d ask myself why I got owned, and what I could have done better. I really feel like many players throw themselves on autopilot during a match-up, and then they get frustrated and begin to point fingers because the strategy that worked on one opponent didn’t work on another.
Mamation posting: I saw a Japanese video where a Bison used cr.Fierce after a blocked cr.Forward and hit. So it may have a use in the idea that your stopping them from trying to throw things at you. Just a thought.
As far as neutral j.Strong, why would you use that when neutral j.Forward is so much better. Its a good option if you are having problems with people jumping in on you all the time (like those online Blankas).
I was watching a lot of videos lately and I see that Japanese player Head Press using st.Fierce a lot to tag option select attempts and uses cr.Short>Knee press to hit confirm. Not a hard combo either. Honestly I just think a lot of you aren’t hitting the right buttons or are using them at the wrong time cause Bison is pretty darn good. Maybe not the best, but I can live with a mediocre character.
As far as that matchup thing, I guess I was wrong. I still feel that the match against Sagot is 5-5 though. If you play gay enough its definably as winnable as any of his other matches. When you have the life lead and are at a position that wont give you pressure, play gay and the opponent will have a hard time hitting you.
To those having trouble with Ryus j.Roundhouse, Bison has a pretty good amount of time to st.Roundhouse as an AA against it. Against Ken though you have to hit that with the quickness (sometimes better to just neutral j.Forward). When you are dealing with fireballs I see a lot of Americans just try to guess jump the fireballs, which isnt a horrible idea, but there are other options. You can jump up and walk forward into st.Forward range and stuff them before another fireball or whatever they are trying to do. If you are far away you can empty jump towards them and that can put you into cross up range or the right range to Focus dash forward throw/cr.Short.