The music is (barely) passable (Music Discussion Thread)

I’m humming Living Forest as I type. I think I hardly qualify as a fanboy. Up until very recently I felt that MK’s gameplay has been complete garbage, even the revered UMK3. I just liked the story(for the most part, MKDA-MKA was kind of a blur) and now I can play some of the characters I like in a game that isn’t complete garbage. And there are still things I hate about the gameplay but that’s tl;dr off topic.

I think you’re overestimating how memorable SF music is to the most casual fan. When I was a kid I played SF and MK equally and remembered MK3’s music more than I did SF2’s. It was only later in my life when I started watching ST matches for fun that I could hum SF tunes on demand.

Nevermind that. How does music being unmemorable equate to it being shitty? When I first asked you to elaborate, I thought you were going to say that the music was poorly composed or something an actual music critic would say. But the gist seems to be “can’t remember it = it’s shit”.

Hardware constraints and freedom are what delivered great BGMs during the early 90’s. Over the years the ideas behind video game sound production in SF has gone from “make the best music you can make on this hardware”, to “make cool music”, to “make a deal with some label to license some crappy pendulum/nsync clone, and throw in some overproduced dumbstep in while you’re at it”.

SFII - Melody-driven tracks. But a specific type of melody. You could basically replace / accompany the melodies with a vocal and it would still sound good (they did in fact do this). The CPS1 was suited for this style of music. Final Fight sounds really bad on CPS1 because the hardware was not suited to deliver the composer’s vision, at least not using their final arrangement. Maybe they pushed the system a bit too hard in an effort to demonstrate what the CPS1 could do. SFII sounds awesome because the music was composed and arranged according to the strengths and weaknesses of the system.

SSF2 - Same as above, but the tracks were arranged for newer hardware so they sound very different. Some CPS1 tracks sound worse on CPS2 (I think the True Ending sounds overdriven on CPS2). However, tracks that were composed and arranged for the new hardware sound great, like Cammy’s theme. Overall the arrangement is still very good, but keep in mind that had the original producers had access to CPS2 hardware from the start, we might have had completely different character themes. Again here, there is little outside influence in terms of popular opinion about music.

Alpha 1/2 - Producers have a bit more freedom with the hardware. You start hearing rhythmic structures. The melody is still there because of historical arrangements, but you can tell that there’s a shift coming. Sound direction is beginning to play a bigger role. Rose’s Alpha 2 theme is a great example of melody and rhythm. This type of track would not have been easy on CPS1.

Alpha 3 - Alpha 3 was a big experiment in acid techno/breaks/rock on a hardware platform that didn’t really support it IMO. The clearly intended to shake up the franchise (all older BGMs replace, new fight system etc). You either love it or you hate it, but some tracks can grow on you. It took a while for me to go from “this is absolute shit” to “I kinda like this tune”.

SFIII - A switch to rhythm-based music: Jazzy breaks, drum n bass and hip-hop and a bit of house/techno. Of course it didn’t start out completely like this, but the shift was inevitable (see Tekken 3 which came out in the same year). And the important bit is that they had started taking into account what was considered “cool” in underground dance music. It also made sense because there were no longer hardware constraints. This was basically the era when guys like Roni Size, Amon Tobin, Funki Porcini et al were exposing Nu Jazz, breaks, Jazzy DnB etc to the EDM masses. If you didn’t listen to these type of artists and played 3S back then, there’s a good chance you hated the music at first.

Skip to SFIV - Pop fusion dance garbage for the most part. Case-in-point? The theme song is by a NINETEEN MEMBER Japanese Boy Band. Sure, you may nostalgia all over your panties when you hear it, but it’s important to note that the song was probably selected to appeal to a very wide market of idiots who don’t know good music. That said, I don’t think that all the SFIV tunes are completely awful, but many of them are overproduced which is a quality that modern audiences find desirable for god knows what reason. There are good tracks hidden beneath the garbage.

While don’t expect SFV to go full retard, I expect the soundtrack to sound like the definition of meh.

Well that’s your opinion. If you ask me to name any tune from MK1-3 from Sega Genesis - I can easily name each and every one of them, i.e. which songs belong to which stages. With Deadly Alliance and Deception that’s a bit of an issue, but the general feel I had from those two games’ OSTs is that I liked them. I really did. So yeah…

Love your breakdown of them, and you’re spot on. It’s funny, most of the original SF2 themes I think sound better on the CPS1 soundboard, though a couple are just as good on CPS2. The new tracks for the 4 new warriors on the CPS2 board were great.

I’ll be honest, I’ve not really been a big fan of DnB music, but 3S gave me a bit of appreciation for it. When Okugawa became the music producer for the SF3 series, you could tell from New Generation that his big influence was the jazz. Makes sense, because a few themes he did for Darkstalkers (J.Talbain, Rikuo, and Demitri) all sound jazz-esque. I still personally prefer 2nd Impact’s soundtrack, but 3S grew on me.

What you said about SF4 is exactly my point – it’s way too overproduced. It’s almost like he just kept adding instruments and didn’t know when to stop, or just put stuff in there that didn’t need to be. To be fair, a lot of today’s music is somewhat like that, so maybe it just got to him. But still, other composers don’t seem to be plagued with that, so why Fukusawa? SFxT was the same way, though some don’t seem as overdone, and a few of the themes he did for MvC3 were okay. But still, overall, I only like maybe 10% of his stuff from each game he’s composed.

I really dislike the 3S OST in particular (I like III and SI quite a bit) because it is really compressed and of low quality sample-wise. It is really hard to listen on a decent sound system with how shitty it was produced.

I gotta strongly disagree on that one. Mortal Kombat 2 & 3 especially had some iconic tracks.

MK is one of the few videogame franchises that has a signature sound.

[quote=“PSYCH0J0SH, post:296, topic:172887”]

Well, speaking of SF2 music, Ryu got leaked for Smash Bros. today.

And well, so did a couple of music tracks from his stage. It’s amazing how music from a game made by someone else on a separate system does a better job at portraying the personality from the Street Fighter series than an ACTUAL FUCKING GAME IN THE SERIES.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cybAa4_t7Sc

[/quote]

If anyone of you really listens to Ryu’s Smash theme, you’ll notice based on the melody, instrumentation, and the tempo/syncopation that the first portion of the song (up to :50) is lifted completely from the CPS1 version.

Well then agree to disagree, because MK has always had garbage atmospheric tracks with no personality, thought, or memorability, and the only song anyone remembers from the series is that crappy techno song that wasn’t even in any game.

I have never genuinely liked a single piece of music in an MK game, and this coming from someone who’s a huge MK fan and visits TYM daily.

The best piece (as far as I’m concerned) is probably the Armory soundtrack on MK9, but even that is decent at best. The theme from the movie is horrible and I wish it hadn’t become synonymous with the series.

As for SFV, I’ve never been a huge fan of Capcom’s music in general, particularly in newer games. But some of SF4’s tracks are damn good, I can get down to Juri, Cammy and Cody’s themes any time.

Except apart from Juri’s theme, those aren’t SF4 tracks. Cammy’s theme is just an arrangement of her SF2 theme and Cody’s is a remix of the Final Fight theme.

Muh druthers would be simpler shorter tunes and all stage specific. SFIV’s thing where the music would change based on characters you’re playing bothered me. The stages felt less iconic because of that. I want it to be, for example, Guile’s stage = Guile’s theme always. Single player can mess around with special themes but I want stage themes to be the stage themes in multiplayer.

edit- like the Smash themes posted above are awesome. I want stuff like that. Short and catchy, heavy on the hooks, not too much instrumentation.

…you could set that in the options though. In fact, you had to UNLOCK the ability to set character specific music in the options, because the stage music was on by default. What are you even talking about?

I don’t care if YOU can hum it, because you have already demonstrated that you’re biased in favor of the series and thus your opinion is worthless to this challenge. If I can’t remember it, it IS shit. If it were a good song, I would be able to remember it. And you can’t remember atmospheric songs that have minimal melodic variety, because literally anyone can come up with them.

You just need to face facts, MK had OBJECTIVELY shitty music. Its compositions were subdued and monotonous for the sake of evoking an atmosphere instead of personality. You cannot make the case that a baby mashing its hands on a Fisher Price key-xylophone is of equal musical value to a piece by Mozart. In Street Fighter all the music is meticulously crafted, and adheres to proper musical form with melodic intros, verses and transitions. They are designed to evoke not just character personalities but general moods, and specific instruments are chosen to work in tandem with other aspects of the song. This is what enables Rufus to have a song that evokes his comedic nature whereas Cammy has a more moody song that evokes her tragic past and stern disposition. Sagat has a theme that conveys his thoughtful, self-keeping nature whereas Ibuki’s theme makes you think of a cute, talented ninja girl. There is no such variety in any MK soundtrack as the only moods the songs convey are “grimdark brooding evil bad” or “blood death kill violence”.

Are you a musical expert or something? Or is your opinion is the only truth everybody should go by? You sound like a kid whining "I DON’T LIKE IT SO IT’S POOPIE, THERE"
So what, if I can’t remember Honda’s theme or whatever - then it’s shit too? And that gives me the right to call it so and pose it as a fact? What kind of a retarded logic is that?

Pushing personal opinion as a universally accepted fact? yeah okay

They aren’t supposed to, it’s no secret that many Mortal Kombat characters aren’t original and are basically inspired by 90’s western tropes. I mean, look at Johnny Cage - he’s literally a copy of Van Damme from Bloodsport!

And yet it’s one of the shittiest character themes in the entire game, random mishmash of a forgettable tune and random voice clips

Sorry that there’s no victory parade fanfare crap in a game that has been all about blood and violence ever since the series was created

x100 this.

Especially since it’s completely retarded to judge music or someone’s taste of music in a first place. It’s pointless and brainless.

If you haven’t been on the SFV stream, let me tell you guys that the character select music is by far some of the best I’ve heard out of a fighting game.

Yes. Honda does not have a good theme. It has no discernible intro and uses generic Japanese cadences which causes one’s mind to tune it out. When you try to remember it you tend to remember something generic like the oriental riff.

I already explained, in that sentence you carelessly trimmed, why I am using “objective” in this context. If you are unwilling or unable to read it, that’s your problem.

So you’re saying they deliberately made the music bad? How does this do anything except affirm the points I made?

Your statement of Rufus’s theme being shitty is an opinion. What I said said was that his theme evokes the imagery and personality of the character, which is a FACT, regardless of what one’s personal opinions are of the song. The reason it uses voice clips of Rufus is because the song is trying to create an image of an outlandish goofball. That was their intention and that’s what it conveys.

Yeah, because that would require the game’s soundtrack (and everything else about it) to not be thoughtless garbage.

Man, the whole “argue until you lose, then say opinions can’t be challenged” option select gets old.

An opinion has no value without an argument behind it. You can like whatever you want. That’s different from calling it “good” or “better”.

Confirmation that Hideyuki Fukasawa’s working on the music for SFV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT5N3FHCg9U

I’ve been trying to be positive about this subject but this is just so generic and overproduced.

Compare it to the perfect simplicity of the Alpha series CS music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDWdiATL65k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGnl6hs7_Gk