Thank you for being awesome.
I am wondering though why you have Painwheel grouped with the bottom feeders? Her mobility is amazing, she gets good off a number of confirms most characters dont have, and it is really really hard to get a clean hit on her (meaning you have to really dedicate yourself to the matchup).
His tiers are listed as ‘top’ and ‘high’ 
I think its supposed to be thought of as ‘these three stand out, this is why’
Why argue and/or try to convince someone who doesn’t want to be convinced? If someone starts hostile, then they won’t change their mind because hostile = stubborn. No point replying or arguing. I actually took a look at this thread with a shred of hope for something interesting but ehr…
Well maybe I can share some thoughts on right now, I’ve not played many games against other but been assessing training mode with characters etc etc…
Personally I feel the top two are Painwheel and Ms. Fortune.
Then I feel it goes through Parasoul, Valentine, Peacock then Double/Fillia/Cerebella.
I don’t personally feel Cerebella is bottom but her effectiveness in team battles is severely reduced as her grabs only leave recoverable health, they don’t shave any real health off, she’s top tier 1v1 though, easily.
My reasoning behind Painwheel and Ms.Fortune, is that they are both very complex characters, with a lot of capability and potential in the long run. Ms Fortunes “head” setups can be very tricky and there’s some setups where the head can come from off screen to hit someone for some nice oki. Painwheels mixup game is just insane and pair her with a command grab assist such as Cerebella or Valentine and she becomes crazy.
Thoughts?
Painwheel doesn’t do jackshit in the air compared to a controlled Valentine. Not a chaaaaance. She’s good, definitely, but double’s anchor abilities make her better, Valentine does what painwheel does faster and safer (And she converts WAY MORE.), and Cere is broken. XD
Yea, I am just wondering why Painwheel doesnt stand out 
Wow I have them on the opposite ends of the spectrum (Painwheel #1 and Ms. Fortune #8).
As I have said before it is mainly due to me not knowing much about the kitty cat.
I can’t take anyone seriously who doesn’t have Cere in top three. That’s blatantly IGNORING the current metagame. Most people have her in her own tier. XD
Yea Cere is bonkers
Painwheel’s command “grab” is blockable if I recall, but I actually agree on you with Painwheel and Fortune being top, especially since they are extremely damaging when played to their full potential (which isn’t easy, I would say they’re the two most technical, execution heavy characters in the game). I play Fortune and am currently learning Painwheel right now. 
Current metagame? Even then she’s still not very good. Tier lists, especially in early stages are based off both current turnouts along with paper, theory and testing. Cerebella is not as impressive as people think and she has major issues against certain characters(Peacock vs Cerebella is very very hard for Cerebella). Along with her lost effectiveness if she isn’t fighting a 1 character team.
Though I will say she is a very good assist, I’m not going to state yet but I do believe there are unblockables using command grab setups with Painwheel. Now I can’t personally test this as I don’t have a programmable controller nor do I have the options in training mode(yet, hopefully) or a second person to test it with(again, yet hopefully haha). Maybe I’m overlooking something.
I meant by pairing her with a command grab assist haha. It’s a little bit stupid to say the least.
You’re basing this on SOLO CERE? Solo teams are TERRIBLE.
Yea Painwheel doesnt have a command grab. It is like Firebrands QCF+S in Marvel 3. It is an attack you can block but it has a grab-like animation.
Gotta agree here.You’re basically nerfing yourself if you go solo except for parasoul. Hey Diemme your thoughts on Ms.Fortune? She has great ranged normals, she’s fast, and can definitely control aerial space with J.HK and J.HP. What do you think keeps her out of the top tier?
I feel I should elaborate on this more, using Painwheel’s flight etc and with certain positioning, you can have cerebella come in for the grab but have Painwheel fly over to cross the opponent up and Cerebella will still land the grab, at this point it becomes obvious that you either need to hit Cerebella and/or Painwheel but it’s particularly awkward, I would record this and show you guys what I’m talking about but I sadly don’t have a video camera/web cam and no capture card either.
You can always jump but I think there’s prejump frames that have no blocking? I’m unsure, the whole unblockable situation is theory and training mode setups, as I said, nobody to test it with nor the options to test it.
No, you misunderstand. When Cere is against a solo opponent, her command grabs do unrecoverable damage(opposed to only recoverable damage against teams), thus she’s better against solo teams. That’s why they’re terrible to be honest. I’m basing everything on having 2/3 character team where assists and all mechanics are available.
So you’re saying that forcing an opponent to use their meter to tag out, or haphazzardly try to escape is a bad thing? Excellent. What you’re clearly missing, is that her throws are only half the reason she’s amazing. You clearly haven’t fought a single Cere worth the salt your blasting. You need to study the characters a bit more. You clearly don’t know the dangerous shit she’s capable of.
Fortune’s damage is AMAZING!!!
But her awkward airdash and slow aerial heavy normals prevent her from controlling space like Val does. The head gimmick is there, and as people unlock her potential, I’m quite certain she’ll be a threat. I see her having the best damage in the game down the line. For right now, she just gets out zoned by pretty much everyone.
Second, third and fourth posts are pretty sad.
Anyway, my point is that people freak out about tier lists for no goddamned reason. They do it for KOF13 because OMG NO CHARACTER IS BAD (bullshit) and they do it here because I seriously don’t fucking know. Maybe they don’t want the game to turn into using only 12.5% of the roster like most games do because that’s only one character? Maybe they have such a strong belief that everyone’s viable and tier lists just make them sad? Maybe Parasoul is their waifu? I really dunno. It just boggles my mind that people are discouraged from talking about tier lists on a competitive fighting game forum, even if the talk isn’t 100% validated (again, internet forum opinions, so what is?).
And you’re saying “Brand New IP” like the game hasn’t been at events in its nearly final form for the last how many months or featured every Friday on the front page of this very site.
On no I’ve studied and I know she has damage, mixups and some good options, but is bad in certain match ups, like really bad. On top of that, I’m not arguing it’s bad or it’s the whole reason why I think she’s bad, I’m just saying it’s reduced effect. I’ve spent a lot of time with the game already, don’t call me out on my knowledge just because you don’t agree with my oppinion.
This type of thread should not exist. This thread promotes no positive discussion. This thread promotes guessing. This thread – BEEP: Cranky, uptight troll mode: off.
Seriously guys, if you don’t like this kind of discussion, then just don’t click the thread. sigh
Anyway, not gonna say that again. I did come with a purpose, and that purpose is to contribute to the better understanding of the characters, specifically Painwheel.
First off, I want to say that Painwheel is not bad. She has about 30 seconds worth of flight, super armor lights that lead into full combos, excellent multi-hitting, high-priority aerials that pretty much shut everything else down with some good prediction, and flight cancels to make everything safe. Seems like a broken character until you look closer.
Contrary to popular belief (yes, I have read this stuff), Painwheel is neither unexplored nor autopilot. The Painwheel community created the game’s first meterless ToD in a 1v3 situation just the other day. Explored? Check. Everything may cancel into fly, but whatchu gonna do when they pushblock and knock you out of the air? Tell them to stop while you check your flowchart?
Nearly every positive she has also comes with the burden of a large sour point as well. J.mp has excellent reach and priority, but it has a ton of startup. J.hp is only really good when it’s charged, which also takes forever. One of Painwheel’s best pressure strings (c.lk c.mk s.hp xx Fly, DF + lk) is highly risky because if they pushblock the s.hp, you’re a sitting duck as your j.lk whiffs right in front of them. Painwheel has a very aggressive playstyle, but if she loses the advantage, she has no way to get out of the corner except for a throw. You get the point.
This character is by no means #1, and is by no means #8. I’d like to believe she’s the upper half, but she has one major crippling weakness besides the ones I just mentioned; she has no way to get in against turtlers/keepaway characters. Painwheel’s assist of choice is Double’s H Hornet Bomber. Problem is that the assist comes with another character with the same weakness to zoning! So Peacock backed with anything (especially Double) can just have a field day with a Painwheel team because Painwheel and co. just has no answer.
There’s no telling where she’ll wind up, although I believe she’s #3 (behind Parasoul and Valentine), but she’s not one extreme nor the other.
This isn’t opinion. She’s the only character capable of doing half the shit she does. And that doesn’t even just go for this game. She’s able to delay cancel normals into superarmor, into grab supers. She has berserker slash for fuck’s sake.
Edit: I FORGOT THE MENTION THE GRAB SUPER THE SIZE OF DANTE’S STINGER ON FRAME ONE, WITH FRAME DELAY. WTMF
This reeks of training mode champion!