The tier list IS a matchup chart… then we add up all the matchups and order them. That’s all it is. So wrong.
kid, i know how tier lists works, and how they are made, so dont come at me like if is a new concept that is the 1st time that i see it
from this very thread you can see what im talking about, people calling a char low, or high, but without any kind of matchup chart to back up that, even worse because the game is out for only a few days
as i said a tierlist just reflect the general concensus on what character is strong and what characters is weak, but that doesnt reflect how said character behaves in his/her matchups, a tier list just dont tell you if that character has the advantage on a matchup against other character, despite if said characters are on different spectrums of the tier list
ideally a tierlist has a matchup chart that comes before it, but more times that i like tbh, we have a tier list before the matchup chart and sometimes only the tier list, this is specially true when its done by pure theory fighting
S Tier: All playable characters
F Tier: Boss Marie
Then you should know what they look like. They’re matchup charts with an extra column, kid.
They’re doing it wrong.
Wrong. It usually doesn’t even have anything to do with consensus.
It does, because tiers placements are determined by the sum of a character’s matchup ratings. A standard deviation column might also be helpful, but to say tiers don’t reflect how characters do in their matchups is flat-out wrong.
That’s because either:
1.) The tier list was formed incorrectly.
2.) The creator of the tier list didn’t feel like writing out and/or sharing the whole chart; or
3.) The game is too complicated to evaluate every single matchup (MvC2 et al). In that case, heuristics are used to guess what a matchup chart would look like, but it still tries to emulate an order representing a character’s sum of all matchups.
It really doesn’t make sense to put everything in one list. I think a list each for points, meter-burners and assists would be handy. For example, double without meter is free to a lot (no good answer to zoning and no rushdown), but with meter for reaction bionic car and gdlk cats for rushdown, she’s pretty good and with the best assist in the game (hornet bomber) and possibly the best DHCs (one mostly safe and one that combos off anything) she starts to emerge as a very strong character, so putting her first on a team of three would be bad, but as the second of two she’s really good, Likewise, Painwheel has no good assists, but doesn’t need meter and has the nastiest resets in the game.
Theoretical lists (I fully admit I don’t know enough about most of the characters to make these claims)
Meter Building:
S+: Filia
S: Painwheel
A: Ms. Fortune, Cerebella, Valentine, Parasoul
B: Peacock, Double
Meter Using:
S: Double
A: Valentine, Painwheel, Filia
B: Cerebella, Parasoul, Peacock, Ms. Fortune
Assist:
S+: Double
S: Ms.Fortune, Cerebella
A: Parasoul, Filia
B: Peacock
C: Valentine, Painwheel
Which means that really good teams could look like Filia/Double, Painwheel/Cerebella or Filia/Valentine/Ms.Fortune.
I’m not sure about this system though because I think some characters rely on assists more than others. Peacock is terrible without an assist, but Parasoul doesn’t really need one for example. Maybe a list for solo/anchor as well?
Which Ms. Fortune assist do you rank higher than parasoul’s flash kick?
Ms.Fortunes heavy dp hits multiple times, covers much more space and stays out longer than Parasouls pillar.
I’d put Peacock higher as a Meter User, mainly because connecting every god damn thing she does into Argus Agony is a pretty neat tool. Gotta love it when a Cerebella finally gets in and you grab->Argus Agony her right back to the other side of the screen.
S tier- Parasoul’s jump Hp is OP with a stupid big hitbox that needs to get patched ASAP!!! she can combo you for days and the damage is INSANE, I literally walk away from the stick get a sandwich and come back and SHE’S STILL COMBOING WTF
The guys I play against learned to push block and now I don’t use jumping HP anymore.
It ain’t no foot dive.
i reckon that fortune is going to be incredible once people get to grips with using her head to give almost constant pressure from anywhere on the screen. keeping it behind the opp at all times is going to be a must im sure.
It looks to me that people are sleeping on what Fortune is capable of. She is a pet character and I honestly don’t know a single fighting game where the pet or 2 in 1 characters don’t end up being really good in at least A tier. Once people have optimized combos and set-ups with both her head on and head off she’s going to be a menace. Hell she’s a menace now. There’s nothing like Super jumping and just catching someone with omnomnom.
Why work so hard when you can use your cross-up/overhead/footsie/anti-air all-in-one J.HK? lol
I think Fortune with her head out is a little vulnerable to zoning from Double’s heads.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling, because of your name. I’ll pretend you aren’t.
J.hp is good, but it’s not broken at all. Stop getting hit.
When are they adding you to the cast? I can’t speculate with an incomplete roster.
Wow, If i were to group the characters in two groups I’d d EXACTLY the opposite of what you just did…
anyway, please don’t just list characters. give reasoning behind them. there’s no point in making tier lists at this point in the game. The reason for this thread is to discuss matchups and strategies so we can develop the game faster. The lists only appear because they help facilitate that discussion by focusing on matchups or specific strategies that are hard to counter.
People putting Painwheel in the top are theory fighters. I urge them to actually pick her and try to chase a runaway character. Her flaws will become apparent pretty quickly. The difference between her and Sentinel is that he can reach or dash across the screen with ease, while she has to rely on flight (Which is limited in its height) and her slow hop dash.
Other than that I have nothing to add about tiers. The game is too new. I just HATE theory fighters who always come out on Day 1 to say that the most difficult characters will end up top when people “learn to use them.”
“Gen will be top once people master him!”
“MODOK will be the best character in the game!”
“Jill is the best character if you know how to use her level 3!”
Uh huh. Sure.
Disclaimer: I have no competitive experience and had very little time with SG personally. But when I skim through this forum I see how Peacock players calling Cerebella godlike while Bella players can’t overcome the Cock. I found it really funny =]
Sounds like balance. Or at least like a game where more skilled player wins. At least so far.
I don’t know who yo are quoting there, but I don’t remember anybody saying that. At least the UMVC3 part of these “theory fighter” have all been right about most predictions on the overall balance. The only thing that I remember was completely crazy was calling Sentinel Top Tier at the beginning of vanilla (and that was EVERYBODY).
I also don’t consider Painwheel the most difficult character in the game.