Overcoming the cock is a challenge each girl must meet her own way
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I’m worried that Peacock is a character that will hit her technical ceiling well before characters like Parasoul and Cerebella. So while she seems really good now, in the long run she may get worse because I can’t see a bunch of new Peacock technology coming about the same way I could with other characters.
just as a starter of debate/discussion i will post my first tier list, i will try to explain why i think the way i do, though know now that i dont consider any tier list especially this early, to be accurate, this is just my thoughts as i feel right now, it can change from minute to minute… this is only for discussion/for people t tell me how crazy/stupid i am and try and back up there arguments so that we can all learn something.
1.valentine… right now i feel like she has it all, great mobility for dealing with painwheels flight and for getting around peacocks zoning. after that ahe has exceptionally good run into grab setups that also are easy to follow up off of… at this point in the game, easy matters, in the long run it might not, but for now it does in my eyes. so basically shes a really all around character having options at range, in the air, and on the ground that i would consider good, she also isnt particularly easy to block with having a command grab and a run into throw/low which is easier to imlement than many of the cast.
2.filia… alot like val, only seems more susceptible to being zoned out. the primary reason why i have filia this high up is that of all the “assist” characters she seems by far the best on point and her assists when used correctly can be amazing: updo is an invulnerable AAA which is always good to have even if it is a slightly bastardized version of parasouls pillar… after that we have hk hairball which is an excellent lockdown assist that has range and allows for easier reoffenses when used in pokestrings… both of these assists have valuable places on any team. she also has a GREAT dhc that allows further combos on hit and can for the expense of lots of meter go sraight into her level 3… plus her combos are fairly easy when compared to the rest of the cast. also has an extremely fast jab for winning combo starter wars.
right now she seems like a quintessential “anchor” perhaps the only character in the game ATM that really seems to exemplify the role by havng good assists, good dhcs and ability to really burn that meter should it be needed.
- ms.fortune… ms.fortunes head ruins so much shit. trying to zone a ms.fortune as peacock? good luck, that damn head goes under lots of peacocks stuff and generally against any character that head is pwnage… getting trapped in the corner by a mashy eadless ms.fortune seems… really bad. i can only imagine how it would be against a good player, that head seems like it will never be “bad” unless some storm style character comes in and basically never touches the ground.
i feel as if this placing is hella theory fighter, but that its probably where she woud belong in the long run. i could be horribly wrong.
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cerebella and peacock… the dominators of the game early, i feel as if cerebella mostly has her assist going for her and that she will drop… but i could be wrong, she certainly has alot of tools for getting done what she needs to be done. peacock is kinda a mystery, has she topped out already? probably not. but i see her having problems in the near future, could be totally wrong.
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painwheel… people will probably hate this placing, but AT THIS MOMENT, i dont see her being better than any of the characters above her. she has some big advantages such as flight and armored normals, though it can be hard for her to actually get into flight and her normals are slow almost forcing her to have to use the armored versions… her air normals seem to be lacking as well in the “ability to hit everywhereness” of say parasouls jumping h, vals jumping h, or for a more obvious example from another game, zeros jumping h or haggars pipe… she feels more like ironman than sentinel… just not bad like ironman. i still hold out hopr for her as it will just take some good execution and neutral game to make her good. i crtainly foresee a future where she “could” be the best character in the game (whereas i DONT see that for bella) but i also foresee a future where she is, in fact, the new ironman… the little character that could on paper, but not anywhere else, im, hoping its the former
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parasoul… i only really have her here cause as far as i can tell it seems as if her tools are SOMEWHAT lacking. she definitely has some really good shit. such as jumping h and… pillar. but what else? sure she has combos… so does every other character though. parasoul is a hard character to tier imho, she seems to really take some figuring out… i definitely could see her being higher, even being number 1 on some peoples lists… just not on mine, not yet atleast.
her assist is awesome though which may alone move her higher… but whos place does she take? painwheels? i cant in good conscience put her in peacocks spot nor ceres… perhaps in misfortunes spot, but then shes higher than cere and peacock and MF is too low. this spot is right for her in my mind.
- double… honestly she only really seems like an assist character to me right now. i’d be happy to be proven wrong. only redeeming qualities i see on point are her double jump and her ouroborous style super, plus going through shit with the car. however i do think she is quite playeable and dont think that this game has anyone anywhere near oh, say, hsien-ko levels of bad.
to give the tier list letters i would put the first 3 characters in A, there is no s-tier yet. peacock and bella i would put at A- painwheel and parasoul i would put at B+
and double would get a B. i think all the characters are immensely playable and that this game at this time is incredibly balanced and every character has spaces on a team that they can fill well.
discuss?
-dime
I won’t argue the order or anything, I don’t think the differences are great enough to really make much difference. I will say that there is more to Double than the assist. As anchor, abusing the catellite super shuts down Ms. Fortune’s head games, and I’ve so far felt like she can zone out Cerebella fairly well with HP pokes into Hornet Bomber confirmed into car or catellite on block. The other thing she has is the raw tag which is full screen, potentially crosses up, and can be followed with a combo, this makes it somewhat viable as a reversal/escape from mix-ups, though obviously you don’t want to overdo it.
? Parasoul has 2 overheads, high damage, best jump heavy, amazing reset potential, great zoning, safe dps into egrets/dhcs, second best assist…
Use double’s light butt assist with her on point, get someone to block the assist and just see if they can block the guaranteed highlowthrow.
The dude that put Painwheel as top tier is Dacidbro, that dude won Norcal tournaments with Painwheel. I’m pretty sure he knows what He is talking about…
Just because MODOK, Jill do not enough top tier doesn’t mean that not technical characters are bad. People said that about Zero, and Viper…we all know how that turned to be like.
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thats actually a nice poke. cool thanks for the info… only works against cerebella though? i assume you are using H hornet bomber? so i guess other characters can duck it… im really looking for useful double info… just cause have no idea what is going on with the character ad because of that i dont know how to fight her nor how to use her.
i understand all those points you make, but which of them makes parasoul special? hard hitting combos? half the cast if not more has that. resets? EVERY character has those… this game could be called “reset girls 2012”… overheads… not every character has those… but the ones that dont generally have command grabs. this game is extremely anti blocking so i dont see how overheads make her special. she has… things everyone else has. best jumping heavy? ok definitely give you that or if not that then one of the best… but what is it worth? is it sents frying pan leading to full combo on hit? its techable when unchained into meaning that you arent going to be getting much damage from it… i was playing yesterday and my opponents teched about 98% of my hit j.hp’s.
anyways none of that means that she is bad, there is alot of unexplored potential with her… but your points dont make her special or good… they are things everyone has more less. if i wanted to convince someone that my argument was sound i wouldnt do it with things that everyone has… cause those are moot.
yeah, he did put painwheel up there, im sure he has good reasons. justin put adon at bottom tier… how’d that work out? just cause dacid says it doesnt make it true. im sure there are “other” top players out there that dont feel the way he does. not that im taking anything away from him or his opinion, i’d like to hear more from him on why he puts her up there… though i suspect i already know. remember this is early, so no one is really coming in with info that is perfectly correct. anyways, im not saying this to put his opinion down, though, yeah, i disagree. im here to say “dont use others arguments to fuel yours without contributing your own views” or else all we would do is go around repeating whatever this top player said. guess what? top players change there minds just like regular folks, they arent infallible and though we should listen to them when they speak, we should use our own brains as well.
anywho im looking forward to seeing more of dacids painwheel, i only saw her on anchor and not played much except for that comeback versus mike z… (if that was dacid… cant remember)
-dime
I am still of the opinion that Painwheel has the best rushdown in the game. Her resets are practically impossible to react to and they can come at any time in a combo. However, on defense she really needs a good assist, especially compared to Filia, who has the next best rush (secret mixup errday). Also, people are really overrating peacock. Once people learn the holes in her zoning, I guarantee she will be the worst character in the game unless someone finds some crazy tech with her. Not to mention she’s unplayable without an assist and Parasoul hard counters everything she does.
Yeah most people in the theory thread know they’re just mid tiers with untapped potential. Everybody is top tier in Marvel, that’s what I like about it. If your character lands a hit they feel top tier.
Go to about 2 hours in to see some of his point Painwheel play.
I’ll post up some stuff of Ryry’s Painwheel later also.
It’s good but it’s not that difficult to just push block it. Her aerial movement is butt garbage so she needs it.
This game was made by a Marvel/Killer Instinct loving guy. Of course the combos are gonna be long.
I really like the Chun stomp. It has a lot more active frames than Chun’s, so it feels like it’s pretty easy to throw out and just ‘land’ on your opponent and go for the Spiral LK crossup thingy.
I feel like you could go on rants like this about all the characters really. They all seem to have their own powerful shit right now.
S Tier: not applicable
A Tier: Painwheel, Double, Cerebella, Parasoul
B Tier: Peacock, Fortune, Filia, Valentine
Can win with any of the characters imo. No one seems totally outmatched.
Who exactly was the mod that approved this thread to be made?
-Tha Hindu
http://www.opsgear.com/common/images/products/main/OG-DVD-SHOTS-FIRED_01_mn.jpg
Is this thread gonna stay open?
The way I was going to organize tiers for the game was by comprising data from majors. Who won, with what character, ratio 1/ 2/ 3 size team, what assists, etc.
-Tha Hindu
as DJ said, this sounds more like a rant. i was the one who said what i said about parasoul. i you have something to add i’d love to hear it.
simply saying “yall niggas crazy, that bitch is s-tier for sure” doesnt tell us much, except that you like your character. i like mine as well. i could wax poetic about all the advantages my character has… but if i did that i would actually be contributing to the conversation. ok, you DID contribute one thing:
jump in stomp into crossup B+lk… ok cool. anything else, or are you expecting her to shoot to s-tier bcause of that? valentine can jumpin with hard punch then dash cancel it into another hard punch for the crossup or do a different normal for a non crossup… its strong but not THAT strong. all you have to do is pushblock and no mixup… samething goes for parasoul… only with valentine i dont have t just do a jumpin i can airdash in or backdash to instant airdash or double jump… i can jump backwards then airdash in… basically a million and one ways to “land” a blocked or hit jumpin. parasoul has… one way. jumpin.
i could be completely wrong here but parasoul seems like a character that plays like venom. and has similarities to mvc3 doctor strange in that she needs to buy time to setup tear drops, then she becomes much more scary. her offense isnt what im scared of though. she has an offense to be sure, but it doesnt seem as good as vals or ceres or painwheels or MF, or filia…
but still i welcome you to prove me wrong by actually listing those things which make you think shes s-tier… i honestly want to know.
but blanket statements like the above dont prove your point, nor do they educate anyone.
also, there is clearly no s-tier in this game yet, s-tiers are heads and shoulders above the rest of the cast and make the rest of the cast unplayable… like st akuma. s-tier is synonomous with “completely broken cant win against this character unless you are using them” s-tiers show a game to actually be bad cause in a good game there arent any. akuma was banned from all tournaments. thats what happens to true s-tier characters. lets TRY to keep the s-tier talk out of this game until we actually have a reason to.
-dime
You definitely got me there 
Yeah done posting in this thread, have fun everyone though lol
I was hesitant to even write anything here and I should of known better, post deleted. Back to just playing the game and let that talk for me, in a couple months maybe I’ll check back in to this discussion that is asinine atm
-The Rahavic
no one is stopping you from doing that though… admittedly this could be called “the matchup and discussion thread”… but people probably wont reply to that much, people like to have something concrete to argue.
the problem with your thread, is that its slow, it has no room for anyone elses input but who YOU say has a say. and it ONLY takes tournament results into consideration, a true “early” tier thread is an amalgamtion of many things, talk, tournament results, personal play exprience, and is much more flexible.
anywho, you can call your tier thread the real tier thread for pros… or whatever. i doubt anyone here would be amd about that, we just want to argue things in here theory fight up our play experiences against each other and learn things easier than we could by playing cause no one has access to a TOP level player of every character, or few people do, but those that dont would like to be able to formulate plans against such characters should they be matched against them and whatnot.
so why cant there be 2 tier threads? one for lower level/general discussion and one less for discussion and more for an empirical list?
-dime
No.
-Tha Hindu