lol martial arts thread vs the mma thread in a nutshell.
everything was discouraged back then. like he was the rebel to finally step out of his comfort zone and say this shit is wrong. martial arts did not cross train at all. every fuckin 10th degree red belt believed everything you needed was built into your style. they refused to let people cross train or go visit another martial arts school. fuck crips and bloods…martial arts schools are the original gangs. also that mentality still exists in some aspects…i see it alot in bjj but to a lesser degree. all these lil crosstraining things may have existed but this isnt like something you can throw up on social media and a million people know about it. it took time and a slow process that was helped largly due to bruce’s popularity…without it…think how much even longer it would have taken to be adopted by people. aignt no one ever heard of pankration in 1970s.
Bruce did boxing in seattle. He did a lot of his “research” as a kid in seattle looking for ways to defend himself against racist bullies. And he did wing chun also to defend himself against bullies.
He’s pretty much the example for us asian americans to breaking the mold
Just weird that people always treat him as a perpetual foreigner when he grew up here
The thing about cross training still exists today. But really football strength and conditioning to build explosive power is universal.
Bjj at least gracie jiu jitsu is basic. But then when i think grappling it is the ability to switch up for what you need you shoot a double and guy sprawls you go to scramble. You end up in clinch and work greco roman. You get that throw assisted with a foot trip from judo. Then you work top pressure like trying to get a pin and look for a loose limb or neck space
You don’t quite understand that Wing Chun hocus-pocus is still part of Wing Chun, and Wing Chun is a huge part of JKD.
You also seem to think that Bruce Lee is being humble when he says Ali would rock him when the reality is Ali would knock him out cold. Humility would be him admitting that he’d be no match for a boxer closer to his own weight devision. I don’t think he’d want any part of Roberto Duran, Ray Leonard or especially Hearns landing on his chin or body. Regarding the Ali quote that isn’t even exactly what he said.
10 years ago I saw Prince Naseem’s sparring partner knockout two 6ft 2 inch, 220 lbs men with single punches after they challenged him to a fight outside a night club he was working at. This was a random sparring partner who was just 5ft 8inches tall and weighed no more than 135 lbs and because of that they assumed he was a pussy. This guy didn’t even make it as a successful amateur boxer in the UK.
Since that day I’ve seen boxers end street fights within seconds against so called experienced street fighter who have a reputation of fighting with no rules. Things change when someone you fight, regardless of size, can hit a lot harder and faster than you with accuracy. This can be achieved after just 2 years of training in an effective martial art like boxing that has been proven to work for generations.
On the topic of Benny The Jet, I actually instruct Kickboxing at his neice’s gym. She’s a bad ass herself, must be in the DNA.
If that really is him, his opponent looks terrible and this isn’t really impressing me. What is it about that performance that makes you think Bruce would have a lick of a chance against Mayweather or any pro fighter in his weight class in a Boxing match?
The evolution of Bruce Lee can be split into 3 distinct eras, Seattle, Oakland and LA being the last. If you look at all 3 you can see he progressively uses less and less Wing Chun. So, although JKD’s origins may have originally been in Wing Chun, he was moving more and more away from it.
Correct, which is why Bruce too thought it was ineffective, during his fight with Wong Jack Man. Bruce thought the fight took too long. His fight with Wong Jack Man is what led him to create JKD - a more efficient/effective style - having parent styles mainly in Wing Chun/Boxing/Fencing.
This doesn’t have to be an excuse by [x] enthusiast. MMA or Competitive Fighting is NOT real fighting - no matter how you look at it. Fights with rules is NOT real fighting - period.
Why are you even trying to argue this? JKD is the basis for MMA. The only difference is one is practical (ie - MMA + “Dirty Fighting”) & used in street fight situations, and one is used in competition with rules (ie - MMA minus “Dirty Fighting”).
As for a JKD guy vs. a MMA guy in a real fight… it really comes down to the two people fighting, and not the styles themselves, since JKD and MMA are pretty similar.
Again, why are you even trying to argue this? What does this have to do with what we are discussing? Talking about OTHER fighters than Bruce entering [x] tournament is irrelevant. I’ve already explained why Bruce didn’t feel the need to enter tournaments so…
It feels like you’re trying to discredit Bruce at every chance you get. Good on you though, for your view on “size doesn’t matter”. What the fuck does a “proven fighter” even mean? Whatever dude. You can read about Bruce’s street fights here: Black Belt Mag (November 1993)[p.32]
The spar footage has nothing to do with me thinking Bruce could beat Mayweather in a boxing match. You asked for “real fight” footage of Bruce and I gave it to you.
Bruce is 5’7" and his ideal weight is anywhere from 132-145 lbs. Floyd is 5’8" and his ideal weight is 149 lbs. (which is what is stated on Google and his weigh-in weight vs. Conor).
"I’m going in to represent Martial Arts as a whole. A true Martial Artist can overcome any stipulation, any ruleset."
― Mystic Mac
This is pretty much why I believe Bruce could beat Floyd at his own game. Dan Inosanto has stated that Bruce was an excellent boxer but “it wasn’t his game”. Boxing may not be Bruce’s game, but I 100% believe what Conor says about a true Martial Artist being able to overcome any stipulation or ruleset.
As I’ve said before, I and many other people think Bruce is the Greatest Martial Artist of All-Time. So if he REALLY is the GOAT Martial Artist, then he should be able to overcome any stipulation or ruleset. Especially in boxing - since it is one the three main parent styles of JKD (Wing Chun/Boxing/Fencing - you can see Bruce use a fencing stance in the spar video).
The fact that I would bet half my life savings tells you how confident (or stupid - depending on who you ask) I am. That’s it.
The Greatest Martial Artist of All-Time vs. The Greatest Defensive Boxer of All-Time - in a boxing match.
But McGregor didn’t overcome. He got pounded with an onslaught of punches in the 10th round and the referee was forced to stop the fight.
His quote frankly just isn’t true. There are levels to this. Just being a" Martial Artist" doesn’t mean shit.
What Martial Arts or combat sport experience do you have? The reasoning in your beliefs would indicate not much as you have yet to bring up any technical arguements and are speaking purely on theory trying to connect dots that don’t exist.
Bruce Lee had a better chance against Mayweather under those conditions tho. If Bruce went in with a 0-0 record, at least he would have went in at the proper weight, a gas tank for days and power to end the fight. Lucky Charms with in with only the big con as his ally, and Mayweather had to dance to make it last more than 3 rounds.
Plus Conor fucked up BIG TIME by putting on extra & unnecessary weight (153 lbs. at weigh-in, to nearly 170 lbs. on Fight Night), which fucked up his gas tank. Conor is a natural 155er.
Again, bold part is true - but being the Greatest Martial Artist of All-Time DOES mean something.
None.
To YOU they don’t exist, but to me, I see them clearly. And what did you say? You’ve been training for over 10 years so you’re not a novice? Well I haven’t trained a day in my life but I’m no novice either. I don’t have to train worth shit to understand proper non-technical Martial Arts Theory. **Theories and arguments that I try to back up with sound evidence and and not shit pulled out of my ass, like: “Bruce Lee is the biggest hoax ever.”or“Bruce Lee was just an actor and not a fighter.”
Wow, I don’t even need to explain/type any further. crucades said everything I wanted to say for me. :tup: Seems like crucades can see the same dots that I see. :tup:
Correct. Conor is a professional fighter, Bruce Lee was a movie actor. Bruce came from a time when Martial Arts was limited and untested. Conor comes from an era where Martial Arts training is abundant, and the bullshito has been weeded out in competition. People praise Bruce for using an arm bar in a movie, which deserves credit for taking place in a time where that technique was unheard of, but if you look at his possitioning his technique is dog shit and any Blue Belt in BJJ could have escaped that.
Wrong, Conor has competed once at 155lb, many times at 145lb, and a couple times at 170lb which is his natural weight. Irrelevant regardless.
And what is your criteria for establishing Bruce Lee as the GOAT Martial Artist? He’s certainly a pioneer, but how is he a better Martial Artist than Bas Rutten for example? Better yet, Rickson Gracie? Both of these guys contributed to the overall knowledge of functional Martial Arts and also backed it up in competition. Heck let’s go back to Bruce’s era, while he’s racking up money in the Box office, guys like Apidej Sit-Hirun were tearing it up in competitive documented fights with a Martial Arts style that didn’t really hit US shores till at least 30 years later.
Here’s where your stance is inherently flawed. You are establishing Bruce Lee as the GOAT Martial Artist which in itself is simply a proclamation, unverafiable and immeasurable. Even if I was to concede that, being a Martial Artists itself doesn’t mean you are legitimately a good fighter if you don’t have the proper tools and training methods to deal with actual fight competition, let alone something fight specific like Boxing. Bruce would get handled in Boxing by lower level fighters let alone someone of Maywheathers caliber.
“Martial Arts Theory” is a waste of time. Doing your homework on technical aspects of fighting is better time spent when not at the gym. Yes, physically training this stuff and putting yourself in tough situations is necessary to truly understand fighting. It’s one thing to theorize about what to do, it’s another thing to actually do it against someone that isn’t playing along.
The way I look at Bruce is he is probably the most important Martial Arts figure due to him being a pioneer and exposing the masses to a style of combat that has a blend of techniques. However, things have evolved drastically since that time and someone with that skill set wouldn’t be able to hang with current high level fighters. Just go watch early UFC’s in the early 90’s and compare it to today. Bruce died in the early 70’s!!! Bruce had a big influence on my childhood but the level of false worship I’ve seen of him in my adult life is astounding.
I think I said my bit, not worth delving into further. I’d rather discuss actual fights over fantasy.
Unfortunately the MMA landscape isn’t creating the most anticipated fights for me at the moment.
Does anyone here follow Kickboxing? Super hyped about Sittichai Sitsongpeenong vs Chingiz Allazov in WLF (China). These two are the best, most skilled 70KG strikers currently IMO. Unfortunately the winner will go on to take a robbery against Yi Long.
Chingiz is setting out to become my FOTY but he’s going to have to beat Sittichai to prove that. The guy was incredible in his K-1 tournament victory a few months back.
