The low tier fury

mid-tier in marvel usually means that the character is missing only a few things that the other godlike characters have. The surprising thing about this, they also usually have a few things that cheaper characters dont.

morrigan: her ground dash is stanky and her ground to air priority isn’t that good…but

she has a practical instant overhead

she has a couple more options than magneto when rushing down(she can vary from 1-5 hits in the air by simply delaying her attacks from airdash)

command grab:arazz:

anakaris, rogue and others have really beastly options, most people simply don’t know the game well enough to apply low/mid-tier strengths vs the hard match-ups

Edit: about justins cammy, i’ll 2nd that, she needs a sedative and some fucking restraints, that bitch= too beastly

There is no way in hell, I’m using Chun over Remy…I like Chunners but its not the same…I feel comfortable with him than any other character in the game…

So I came to the conclusion that I use Remy as my main, and when I start loosing Ima change to chunners…

Simply put its hard not to be a tier whore…But I think it ruins the game, and they become stale…

Also I can’t remember if your allowed to put ‘and’ after a comma…

Yes, you put a comma before any conjunction. It’s a semicolon if you don’t use the conjunction and you have two independent clauses.

Also when it comes down to percentage of the cast that is playable, I agree that’s really not that important. It’s always sad when a game only has three-four characters that are top, regardless of how many different ways they can be played, since having let’s say, eight characters in top or near top would create even more variety. That goes for any game, playing with low tiers is fun, but all the vids of them winning in the world doesn’t put a dent into all the vids of the respective top tiers beasting.

You only put commas before coordinate conjunctions.

Top tiers are better. That’s why they are top. The whole point is that the best player will win if he is comfortable enough wit his characters. And its easier to prove that. If you give Santhrax to Mike Z, Veg X or VDO they still lose to Wong, Sanford, Yipes and a few others.

And see Mixup or Infinite talking about Justin’s Cammy, for instance. Justin is Justin and whatever, but he shows that it’s possible. Mixup put i way better than I ever could. Low tiers mid tiers lose so muc more because most people just suck with them. They are too busy x-copying stuff from videos to figure how the rest of the game works.

My point i snot that you should play mid/low tier. My point is if you don’t play a game because you think your character can not compete, you’re wrong. They can compete, if you learn it well. Most top players do great with some mid/low tiers, the mid/loe tiers that they learrned to play with.

And I’ll say it again for whoever missed it. According to Wong, his Cammy is better than his own sentinel and Magneto. So when you say “Wong can do it because he is god-like” you gotta remember that even the god-like Wong playing Sent, Magneto or Cable is not good enough to surpass his Cammy. If Cammy can beat Wong, she is good enough.

But…I don’t think Cammy is considered “low tier” in MvC 2. :confused:

In fact, I think she’s considered the best character on the Capcom side. :looney:

From what I’ve seen Low tiers in all games have to be more patient and more defensive compared to the better characters. In MVC2 this is difficult becuase the top 4 have a serious arsenal so its hard to defend against them long enough to get a chance to deal some damage. Also you can take alot of chip damage in short amounts of time.

By the way I think Dhalsim is top tier in MVC2 from what i’ve seen in Magnetro’s tutorial. I just think no one wants to take the time to practice him becuase he is very difficult to play at a high level and its really not neccesary when you can already play the top four at that level.

i dont like smash or anything like that but even to me that was kool

The interesting thing about stuff like this is that there are characters in alot of games that are considered top tier, but don’t get played like they are top tier. There are plenty of times in CVS2 where I ask myself whether Guile and Honda actually are top tier.

I mean is Guile really better than Ken? And is Honda really on par with Cammy?

I like some of the distinction I’ve seen in MVC where the top 4 are sometimes labeled as the God Tier. I think this is probably the easiest way for me to think of it. CVS feels like it has a God Tier to me, and it just isn’t labeled that way. I don’t know if I will ever be convinced that Chun/Honda/Guile are as strong as Blanka/Cammy/Sagat.

I’ve been leading off my MvC2 team with Akuma…I don’t know why…

akuma is imo the best shoto. his launcher is 4 frames for some reason too, his dash is sooooo much better than the “other” shoto bums. air fireball too good

I wouldn’t say that (Dhalsim, Morrigan, Megaman and others may be better) but lets assume this is true.

OK. Then Cammy is the 15th or 20th best character in the game, and Wong is basically trying to show that a good enough Cammy can surpass every single character of every single player in the world. So no wmvC2 has 25 competitive characters. You can ignore the other 30 and have the most balanced game ever.

As I said again and again, having 20 extra characters that aren’t so good doesn’t make the game worse. You may ignore them and play MvC2 - the version in my mind - or have fun with them like Randy Lew does with Shuma or Julian Robinson does with Hayato, or Wong does with Roll and Dan, probably the 4 worst characters in the roster.

Either way, Cammy in Marvel is numerically way lower than Q in 3rd Strike, and yet it can be used really well if you learn her.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=127800

i posted up some tricks for those people saying weaker characters in marvel can’t do shit.

anyone actually try practicing?

sigh I haven’t posted in about a year and I hope this post shows why.

To touch on stuff that was posted earlier, I have always considered low tier to be what people aren’t playing. It’s that dogmatic; it’s that simple.

I’d also venture to say, “What isn’t winning” or “What isn’t winning tournaments.”

Since the days of SHGL (when WC was always claiming the best players), things were so wound up that people that didn’t go to SHGL (including myself) got laughed at. That kind of elitism has always eliminated new interest in Street Fighter, and I’ve always fought against it. Conversely, I’ve always advocated creating forums of your own to play.

“What isn’t winning tournaments” is a definition I’d only use because people don’t have a better forum to find gameplay in. Whether they access that forum by going to the major or “once a year” tournaments or by getting match vids of such from the internet, it gives a very limited sample of what is possible in each game included.

“What isn’t winning” is a lot better because it doesn’t posit tournaments as an end-all-be-all experience for the game. Your and everyone else’s experience ends where you want it to. If you think low tier sucks, it’s because you don’t want to play low tier. You can say it’s because “Storm is fun” instead of admitting that you want to win as easily as possible, but that is basically the bottom line: you don’t want to lose.

If you play to have fun… or play to play, you’d play low tier.

The only remaining argument that holds water is that if you “play to play,” you would do whatever you can to stay on the stick… in other words, play what guarantees victory for fear of having to give it up as a loser. In this case, I suggest finding a single (single as in not plural fags) sparring buddy that’s as committed to simply playing as you are. It will not work if he wants to win because even the most hard-headed person (I’m one of those idiots) will eventually adapt and start kicking that sparring partner’s ass with, say, Wolverine. If he plays to win, then he’ll stop playing with you. Dasrik was that person for me, and he stopped playing me regularly around 2001. Since then, I haven’t been able to find someone who doesn’t “just want to win” or “have fun” as they so pitifully attempt to mystify me. It isn’t their fault: competition taken to an extreme does this to you. Ironically, a little bit of cooperation and insight can raise the game for everyone else… but most people aren’t interested in everyone else.

My experience with Wolverine didn’t end with Dasrik, obviously, but because I haven’t been able to find equally committed people, I’ve been remanded to what I do know: going to arcades and playing random people. Good people show up every now and then… I tend to avoid them because they hate losing to me so much and fighting those kinds of people is just a waste of time… and I truly shrug about that because no matter how much they can brag about how many times they’ve beat me, they can’t say they’ve pit low tier versus **my **top tier with any sort of success… and that’s the kind of success?though it may be few and far between?that I have. And no, I don’t have to prove it. You want proof, *you *come watch me. Nothing further on that note.

Although low tier experience can extend beyond a sparring partner, it is very limited, tiring, thankless, lonely, and cruel. It isn’t hard to tell where I stand in the SF community: I’m a freak-show for SF rightists (…people who desperately want me to come to major tournaments, hoping I can still play well enough to showcase a little which garners new interest in Street Fighter for them; money makers who look for sponsors, new players to leech off of and will eventually sell power gloves like Fatality does for 3PSs?No, I’m not talking about the Cannon brothers or anyone affiliated with SRK. If you must know, I’m talking about all the pitiful attempts at tournaments by the people who coincidentally surround SRK… they sound like ‘Wanna come to my tournament?? SURE you can win, dude!!’ and end up kicking your ass and taking the pot without explanation when you show.) and a “Joe Zaza? Nigga PLZ” for SF leftists (hardcore gamers; people who only try to spark interest within other existing hardcore players?heels and the people who make bets on them). Apart from their existence and the elimination of which, neither of those philosophies matter to me.

Just remember not to hate winners *too *much, because “win freaks” are as useful as people who “just play.” Without them, you wouldn’t be able to say what I’m saying, which is that you can beat “good” people with “bad” shit. In fact, that comes part and parcel with what I’m saying: The ability to vex people and play “devil’s advocate.” Not that I take advantage of that… I used to. But if I did now, I’d be coming out of the middle, going towards the left, and hiding back in the middle like just about every-fucking-body that posts or ever placed in an American Street Fighter tournament… and as you can clearly see from my lack of presence at them things, I’m comfortable where I am.

I am good… and unlike so many insecure fucks who keep trying to raise their hand to get recognition from someone who fought just as needlessly to get the props they never “deserved,” I don’t need anyone to tell me that I haven’t kicked a good person’s ass to believe that I have. No name dropping, plz? K thx.

…and that is the kind of attitude you need to play low tier. Before I played Wolverine, I never needed or had videos, so again and unfortunately half of this thread is automatically useless.

Contrary to the standards of communication that people use in SF culture (all culture is a collection of symbols; in other words, LANGUAGE), it is NOT automatically assumed that we all “play to win.” OR that YOU (the reader) does. It’s just part of a collective unconsciousness that permeates language and therefore discussion… and even THOUGHT. The moment you stop taking that for granted is the moment you can begin to constructively think outside the box for yourself.

Don’t let someone else’s perception of you change you; the moment you act with justice to yourself, you begin to see with your own eyes and hear with your own ears.

I’m so far from the left and right that I barely play anymore. Don’t forget about that eventuality, too. Once you clearly realize where you stand, playing to validate your existence become less and less of an issue. People have to beg me to come play them now… and I usually don’t answer their calls or show. It’s life. Go figure it out for yourself.

Quick note:

Players who know the game well (Robust, Mixup, Wong, Joe Zaza) saying that low tier can be competitive. Players that don’t know Marvel well disagree.

So, if you’re just thinking about playing the game, its fine to play with whoever you want. People who really know enough to speak about it Iare telling you this.

And no, I’m not part of them. I’m just a scrub that likes big communities.

Scrubs that like mankind are cool with me.

I *would *keep up with this thread. I really would. But life has got me by the throat. I’ll just wrap it up with a quote from my brother: “If you disagree, you are wrong.”

People that don’t play low tier don’t have balls. NOT to lose. Anyone can do that. But to lose and then face the myriad of gutless people asking you “WHAT HAPPENED MR. LOW TIER IS GOOD!!!” And shit?I can understand that. Like I said, not getting acknowledged gets tiring. But if you really love people for love’s sake alone, then you’ll keep on trying when you can… and that’s good enough. That’s right, Sealab 2020: “The secret ingredient is love.” (Which is why I choose to believe in God instead of Marx, Bill.) As long as you don’t get all homophobic on me, you can take that and walk with it.

Hey, at least I’m not peddling JAYLAS ™. You can say religion is the opium of the masses, but that’s only because you’re temporarily cynical like Marx was himself… Either that or secretly/unconsciously believe in dealing the shit yourself. Think of it… people pushing revolution that are only willing to trade one tyrant for another. It happens all the time. Marcus Junius Brutus, presidential elections, Hollywood’s endless falling and rising stars, people wanting Wong to lose so another idol can rise. All the fucking time. People need to stop hating and start hoping or else they’re just going to keep having it hard when them “hard times” come.

Again, never let people with unresolved issues fuck hope up for the rest of us. I mean, love them… I mention Bill over and over again because we have history and he is undoubtedly “the homey.” But don’t let cynicism bring down your sense of self or agency.

That’s all I got to say about that!

All I’m trying to say, is come tourney time, many of those players revert to their top tier teams. The results of tournaments contradict the multitude of idealistic notions sadly. It’s easy to say these characters are all viable options come tourney time. (Saying that they can really doesn’t mean all that much. As being able to compete, and being proficient at it are different things. You could tape down all the buttons on your controller sans for one, and still could compete. Whether you could have enough skill to overcome the fact you only had one button would be the question.)

So can people play low tiers and win? I guess, never really seen that many winners using Anakaris, as much as I like the character. Perhaps the tournaments I’m looking at, are not indicative of the scene, I’m not part of the scene, but when I look in, I just must think it’s more than coincidental the sames names pop up all over the place.

you don’t have to master the game in order to have a decent approach to playing.

it’s smart to really learn the engine and all the possibilities, the game is so large that most players start complaining even before they truly start to learn it.

low tiers have combos too, one touch kill combos lol

Skill is not inherent. Skill comes from practice. Always.

Think about what you’re saying here. On one hand you have an argument against idealism. On the other, you have one for its opposite, pragmatism: practical consequences or real effects.

You’re saying that unless something is put into practice, it shouldn’t be an ideal that’s strived for. But reality itself is an idea to you, him, me, and everyone. So what you’re basically saying is that we shouldn’t try to live our ideals. Basically, you’re a cynic.

Everyone channels their ideas through action. Sometimes those actions have good effects (results), and sometimes bad ones (consequences). However, everyone must admit that what is good to one person can be bad for another… so avoiding action (no matter how trivial) to avoid a consequence is something that only you can determine… unless you allow someone else’s idea of what is wrong affect your perception of the world.

Saying, thinking, or deciding not to play (or participate in anything for that matter) just because you don’t have a good or clear example of how-to begs the question: How did the people that first used top tier ever learn to? And why did they?

You say you’re not part of the scene. Registering an account, having an avatar, reading threads and passing judgment on posts sure makes you look like a part of the scene. What, were you just “passing through” during the time that you decided to do all of that?

At this point, I’d say that it’s hard for you to avoid seeming like a person who wants to make people feel bad about what they’re doing because you feel like life is pointless. It’s almost as if something happened to you, and as of yet, you haven’t dealt with it. If that’s the case, I suggest you deal with it instead of pitifully trying to make people feel bad. Praise God, see a shrink or something.

come to cal poly on mar 31st for shits and giggles just because i miss you. <3