The new hurrican kick is tough to deal with.
Actually, what he meant was there are now 3 votes for Ryu, 1 vote for Boxer. But since then, the score has been changed to:
3 votes for Ryu
4 votes for Boxer
- James
I’ll address these matchups:
Ryu:
I’ve never needed to jump fireballs on reaction. At claw’s ideal poking range, it’s too close to react most of the time (since Ryu has quite a few other options besides the fireball). But also at a slightly further range, it’s possible to jump over and not attack unless you’ve made sure that the fireball is real. The possibility of claw not attacking, Ryu’s limited dp range, and Ryu’s expanded hitbox while in dp recovery all negate the fake fireball’s effectiveness. If Ryu can do more with the fake against claw, I haven’t seen anyone effectively use it. This has never been a hugely advantageous fight for claw though since Ryu has great knockdown options combined with a dangerous super.
Dictator:
Yeah, the wall dive nerf has claw lose his slight advantage from ST. Dic still can’t easily catch claw in a safe manner though and he’s definitely still in a weak situation when knocked down or in the corner (same is true of claw). Claw must dance carefully around dic’s superior pokes but he can counter most advances very well. Both characters are highly mobile but neither has a very safe way of getting in for this match so it’s sort of a deadlock.
Honda:
Honda’s easier HP slaps allows him to get in and chip more but claw’s pokes now have a high possibility of beating it out, which cancels out the gains. If Honda tries slaps on wakeup, it’s a free reversal attempt for claw with over 50% success rate for any good player. Losing wall dive knockdowns isn’t a big deal since most Hondas would get out of them in ST anyway (albeit after getting tagged). Both are amazing turtlers in this match though (Honda being better in the corner but claw with easy escapes) so it ultimately comes to a standstill.
I favor boxer as #1. Ryu is up there but having the other good characters as unfavorable matchups hurts him even if he has the highest points overall.
Ryu is tops.
I definitely feel that fake fireball changes a lot of Ryu’s matchups in his favor, but I don’t feel like it affects Boxer’s match up. At 3/4 to full screen I’m reacting the the fireball itself and using headbutt to get through. If I’m not doing that I’m waiting for Ryu to hesitate, then I throw out a jab Straight Rush as a poke (independent of reacting to fireballs). If I’m up close, fake or real, the fireball animation is long enough that headbutt will hit Ryu out of it. If anything I feel like using fake fireball only hurts Ryu because it gives Boxer more opportunities to hit Ryu without Ryu being able to defend.
Let me know what you think of this:
I think Ryu can be tops when played properly, since he has the least weaknessess and has tools to squeeze out any matchup. While some top-tier characters such as 'Rog may have great difficulty in certain matches, Ryu has the tools to beat anything regardless of matchup disadvantage. Where some characters have to go through hell to win (ex. Cammy v. Honda), a well-played Ryu can go through less hell. Understand? He’s just an all-around excellent character.
Sometimes being really good all around doesn’t make up for having a large amount of highly favorable matches. For example, there are a few 3S tier charts that rank Chun higher than Yun, even though Yun’s worst match up is 5-5. Chun just has more highly favorable match ups to balance out the fact that Yun has no disfavorable match ups.
Edit: Hm at this point, I think I’m just arguing for the sake of arguing. Feel free to ignore this.
I’d definitely add Cammy as a bad match for 'Rog, maybe 6-4 or 5.5-4.5. Also, isn’t Honda supposed to be hard for 'Rog?
I’m pretty decent with Fei Long and know some stuff about his match ups. here is my opinion them.
Fei Long Vs.
Ryu: 3 - 7
Ken: 3 - 7
E. Honda: 3 - 7
Chun-li: 6 - 4
Dhalsim: 3.5 - 6.5
Cammy: 5 - 5
Blanka: 5 - 5
Balls can be punished by Rekkas but any good Blanka knows better. Fast normals, fast jumps, high priority jump in, mixed up with bites and hops. Chicken wing is useless but standing feirce beats Blanka’s ball and slide.
Zangief: 5 - 5
Fei Long can keep Zangief away but Zangief has answers for his moves. Lariat beats Rekkas, his trip trades favorably against crouching fierce, easy to punish baited flame kicks.
Guile: 4 - 6
Guile has good zoning but when Fei Long gets close, he is a big thread with his rekkas, chicken wing and crouching feirce.
T. Hawk: 5 - 5
Dee Jay: 3 - 7
Strong zoning with fireballs and good normals makes it’s hard to get in without getting punished. Also has deadly cross ups.
Boxer: 3.5 - 6.5
Balrog is great at rushing down. Fei Long can punish Balrog’s attacks with crouching feirce if the spacing is right but has to be careful of the turn around punch. It will usually trade with Fei Long taking much more damage.
Claw: 3 - 7
Sagat: 4 - 6
Dictator: 5 - 5
Seriously Boxer and Claw have no matches worse then 4/6.
How could Ryu be better then them?
Ryu for 4th at best and Sim for 3rd.
I think I’ll re-edit my match-ups as well. Hawk is on the right:
Ryu: 5.5-4.5
Ken: 5-5
Guile: 6-4
Honda: 7.5-2.5
Dhalsim: 6-4
Chun-Li: 4.5-5.5
Zangief: 4-6
Blanka: 7.5-3.5
Boxer: 6-4
Sagat: 7.5-3.5
Claw: 7-3
Dictator: 4-6
Cammy: 7.5-3.5
DeeJay: 7.5-3.5
Fei Long: 6.5-4.5
I’m seeing a lot of Fei playing saying Fei-Chun is 6-4. Could a Fei player expain why they feel Fei has the advantage?
Totally random but…
I was just watching a series of Jiggly v. Thelo sets. Very awesome fights, the empty jumps by Jiggly were nice. I also gotta give some props on having the balls to walk right up to a charged Honda and grab him.
Carry on.
i vote for balrog for being #1.
you can say the same about pretty much every “good” character in the game.
replace ryu’s name with some other good character, say dhalsim and it’ll still hold true
i use both fei and chun, a lil more fei than chun (my main is vega). anyways, i feel this match is fairly even, maybe fei wins slightly.
like the rest of the cast with dps, fei’s flame kick makes it hard for chun to be jumping around with her floaty jump. once you stop chun from jumping, what can she do? throw fireballs right? fei can still chickenwing over it using the hk or mk version from further than mid screen or lk chickenwing kick to go thru it from midscreen. chun doesn’t have anything that can react to a chickenwing kick after throwing a fb unlike ryu who can dp on reaction to it from time to time.
once u get in with the chickenwing kicks, you can use your option tree (chose between another chickenwing, flame kick, throw) vs her which is really hard for chun to break, especially in the corner. chun can’t jump away from repeated lk chickenwing kicks since her jump is floaty, she gets kicked back down. however, because fei has one of the worst throw ranges in the game and because chuns throw is so buff, her throw will usually come out over feis if he tries to throw after the chickenwing. chun also has no solid anti air to keep fei from chickenwing kicks over and over. i know there might be a normal or two chun has that will stop it, but she has to be committed to that one move, which will give fei other ways to get in on her.
on the ground, fei has the speed and high priority normal moves to keep up with chuns ground dominance. once u make her hesistant to throw out fireballs with standing hp and chickenwing kicks, you can pressure her with rekkas, more fierces, etc.
the only reason why i say this match is sorta even is because chun can still have a decent keepaway game with her fireballs and also because of that crazy mp throw.
this match is almost like regular st where fei kills chun after he gets her trapped in the corner with the chickenwing kicks, but fei has to deal with chuns fireballs. in hdr, the chickenwing traps aren’t as effective, but neither is chuns fireball due to the improved rekkas, lk chickenwing kick and improved range on his super.
^ I wouldn’t say so, friend. Dhalsim can get SMASHHHHHHHED by Vega and Cammy, regardless of skill. Especially with Vega, spamming walldive is game over for 'Sim. But I get what you’re saying.
Fair enough. But even though he is deadly once he gets this going, I haven’t seen too many people who can create an opening to do this consistently. Also, even if he does catch you with this stuff, there’s a 50/50 chance at every turn that you’ll block his stuff or counter throw, allowing you to get away and go back to zoning him. Maybe I just don’t play enough good Kens.
Ryu will only zone you until he builds up meter. After that, he’ll cautiously try to get in and kill you with mix-ups. And I think his inside game is at least as good as Ken. His overhead is really good and can lead to deadly options. Also, half of his block string involve cr.HK or LK hurricane, which both knock down. I find his super a lot more practical than Kens too, since it’s useful at any range and is one of the reasons why I think Ryu can get in easier. Oh, and don’t forget fake fireball shenanigans. DGV’s Ryu is a great example of all of these things put into practice.
Yup, Kuroppi you’re the reason I dowgraded this match from 7-3 to 6-4. And you could even be right. Maybe it’s even or in Hawks favor. But…you’re the only one who’s consistently been able to use those things on me. I think I play that match a bit sloppy and I bet if we played a lot more I’d start mixing up the timing of the pokes more and recognize the ranges where I know what will happen if you randomly quick dive. Either way, we should play again soon 
First, a quick note: Those numbers are what I think the match is once both players get to expert level at it. It’s not necessarily how I perform. For example, I’ve really explored the Honda match and I can say with confidence that it’s 6-4 or at worst 5-5. I’m not as good vs Blanka, Chun, and Boxer, but I can see what tools they have, what other people are doing well, and what I do wrong and then make a good guess at how expert vs expert would turn out.
Blanka: I think this match is kind of like Honda. If you keep him out, you win. I think Blanka has a little easier time than getting in than Honda, but he does less damage and it’s slightly easier to escape if he does get in. In particular, LK/MK slide when he’s crossnig you up and counter throws can often get out of trouble. But I think the key is in not letting him get on you to begin with. I personally need to get better at that, but I can see the potential. And you’re right. The opening moments make a big impact on how that goes.
Chun: I think this match is similar to Honda, but not in the strategy dept. It’s similar in that it feels like you need to know about 1,000 very situational tools to make the match tough for her. Currently, I feel like I know ~60% of those. But if you watch guys like Gian, Cole, or John Rambo play against Chun you can see how it’d look once you learn all of them.
Boxer: I flat out suck at this match. All of my losses at Evo were to Boxer. But I don’t think that’s Sim’s fault, it’s mine. After Evo, I started practicing this match a little bit, but mostly my number here is based on watching people that know this match better than me.
now, replace the sims name with ryus name and replace cammy with balrog. instead of wall dive, its c.mps/c.lps and it’ll still hold true.
Can we stop saying Boxer is #1? It makes me feel bad for losing so much online. : (
Dude he is.
What a silly character.
But it depends on who you lose to.
If you are losing to Sim’s and Gief’s then w/e.
If you are losing to like…I dunno…Ken or Fei long…then yeah…you should feel bad.
lololol
You act like he has nothing but easy matches. If both Rog and the character he’s fighting against are playing at their peak, he doesn’t have ANY easy matches. Especially in HDR.