I think Boxer is number 1.
SweetJV I cant speak for Damdai obviously but I think one reason is because if Ken can get it with his hurricane shananigans he can then go into the knee bash and punish Sim with a mean mixup game. You have to worry about Ken doing it again and if you guess wrong you are eating a nasty short combo into a super or dragon punch which could dizzy you and then lights out. Also you cant shake out of the knee bash so you have to take the damage.
A good ryu will try to outzone you and make you come to them and then hope to punish you. Sure Ryu has some inside game as well but not as good as Ken’s.
Johnny I like your Sim chart, but I’d have to say it’s a bit more in Sim’s favor vs Hawk.
why?
I’ve played a lot of good Dhalsims and Hawk does not lose that match very often. His pokes counter Dhalsim’s pokes very well (especially low strong) and he has a great mixup dive game against Sim.
I think that match is in Hawk’s favor. :karate:
Ryu - 3
Boxer - 1
I see, and I pretty much agree with your Chun Li strategy in general. Her goal in that matchup really is to keep Honda away at all costs, and she’s definitely the one putting up the brick walls in that matchup. As long as she can keep out of buttslam range, she’s in control. I also agree that this matchup is all about position.
Here’s how I see that matchup. I think that Honda can bring it back to an even matchup if he uses that key answer to Chun Li’s questions: the buttslam.
Honda’s buttslam has an astonishing variety of uses against Chun Li, but one of the most important ones in my opinion is the reaction buttslam against kikokens. Because kikokens are relatively slow and have long recovery, if Honda ever gets into HK buttslam range, Chun Li throwing any kikoken at all can mean heavy disadvantage because Honda can buttslam-punish her on reaction practically every time.
To get to buttslam range, Honda can either bulldog (walk-up block) his way in, or use the floating fierce, and Chun Li doesn’t have very good answers to this except backing up a bit and throwing more kikokens. Eventually, at the cost of some kikoken chip damage, Honda can back up Chun Li against the wall, which is his advantageous position because he can hold down-back and punish any sort of Chun Li offense with a reaction buttslam. If Chun Li just does repeated jump MK, Honda can also either jump MP to beat it or time a fierce headbutt against her vulnerable prejump frames, but these are riskier.
Incidentally, another use of the buttslam against Chun Li is to beat her safe jump jab, stand strong, kikoken sequence. Buttslam will hit (blocked) on the way up, then on the way down (blocked), then Honda follows with HHS (blocked) and is at the right position to threaten a buttslam vs kikoken. The whole thing deals good chip damage and gets Honda in a good position.
Finally, as you probably know, buttslam is devastating on Chun Li’s wakeup. In particular, if Honda does a slightly delayed buttslam, it’ll actually cleanly beat Chun Li’s upkicks if they’re done as a reversal (to beat this, Chun Li needs to delay her upkicks as well and have frame-perfect timing). In the corner, buttslam gets even more dangerous because Honda can try to hit with his rising buttslam a couple frames after Chun Li’s reversal frame, which also beats reversal upkicks and has a similar blockstring setup as the vs safejump jab example.
Chun Li does have some tools to get out of trouble. If she’s cornered against a down-back midrange Honda, she can do a high walljump, then do a pogo stomp that hits slightly behind Honda (so it’s safe vs headbutts and buttslams), and if Honda walked backwards to block the pogo stomp, do a spinning bird kick to run away to a good position. She can also use her super to break through double-hit buttslams, which won’t do much damage but will allow her to get a knockdown and a good position. But overall, it’s as least as tough for Chun Li to get away from a bad position than it is for Honda to get in from fullscreen.
Because Honda has a very good advantage if he gets in, and because it’s not that hard for him to get in with bulldogging, floating fierce and reaction buttslams (compared to vs shotos, or even Guile / Deejay), I currently think Honda has at least an even chance against Chun Li.
We definitely should play some sets to put the theories to the test! :tup:
I second this.
Sure thing!
I think I’m okay against Chun. Maybe I can show you some things in that matchup. :looney:
Third this.
Ryu has 3 bad matchups (6-4 or worse): Sim, Boxer, Claw
Boxer has MAYBE 3, but they’re all 5.5-4.5 at worst: Dhalsim, Zangief, Chun
Ryu vs Claw is like 7/3 Claw’s favor.
He loses to Gief too BTW.
I said 6-4 or worse (as in 7-3/8-2/9-1/10-0 were all included 
)
I don’t think he loses that bad to Gief. Its 5-5, or maybe 5.25 Gief.
Edit: looks like Damdai has it at 7-3 Ryu, which I think is a little much. But then again I think Sagat/Ryu is 5-5, where he has it at 6-4 Sagat
Fourth this.
Man yall niggas love the lone Ansatsuken warrior eh?
…
SAGAT ALL DAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!
*Tiger shots Ryu in the face
[ RY KE HO CH BL ZA GU DH TH FE DJ CA BX CL SA DI
DH 6 7 6 5 6 6 5 - 6 5 5 4 5 4 7 4 (81)
QUOTE]
SweetJV it’s funny how you also think that Sim isnt quite top tier either. I’ve been saying that about Sim for a while too. Anyhow how do you have Sim vs Blanka so high? It seems all Blanka’s jump over your head and just tick bite. I’ve seen this work against high level Sim’s.
Anyhow you favor Sim over Honda? And Chun and Boxer you think is even? I need to watch you some more.
Have you tried mashing throw? I used to have this problem a lot with Boxer until I started mashing throw. If anything Sim’s throw range should be longer (with fierce throw) and so I would imagine it would work better. Also, have you tried short slide? It probably won’t work against Blanka, but if you haven’t used this it seems like it would be worth a shot. Short slide is an amazingly good anti-air for a lot of attacks that don’t have a good lower offensive hitbox.
Yeah the slide works but blanka’s normals are so fast and he can chain combos pretty fast if you dont block. Also if you get caught blocking then you get tick bitten. It’s very annoying but it’s all blanka has against Sim. If Sim can keep Blanka out then he is okay. The opening of the round dictates alot. I’m still working on getting better with the matchup.
I haven’t played against a honda that uses the slam in the way you describe. It’s very possible that that would change the matchup dynamic entirely and put it in Honda’s favor.
Sure, that would be great. I’ll admit my Fei matchup knowledge is quite incomplete.
I’ll send you both friend requests, so hopefully we can find each other on live and play some sets.
That’s not an unreasonable proposition… who would you put as #2, though?
I would generally agree with this, except for Ryu, Dictator, and Honda.
Ryu:
Claw can’t jump in on reaction on fireballs anymore… because some of those fireballs will be fake fireballs, in which case he eats a DP, into a possibly round ending crossup.
Dictator:
The wall dive nerf hurts here, because the expected damage from a knockdown goes way down. The tick game is also hurt because the devils reverse lets dic float out of scary situations. Claw is still vulnerable to a round loss from random scissor kicks or jump mp x3, both of which lead to crossups.
Honda:
Fast HHS make it much easier for Honda to do reliable chip damage. In a matchup where the attacker loses, having safe chip damage is huge.
I feel that overall, some people are underrating the power of Ryu’s fake fireball. I think it completely changes the Boxer matchup, for example. So many anti Ryu strats are based off of reaction to FB – all of these reaction based punishments are now vulnerable to fake FB, which can sometimes mean eating a DP into crossup (can be round endingly bad), or a FB (still get pushed away, is bad)