The inevitable tier thread

Classic Fighting Games SSF2T: HD Remix
1201

I’m trying to find match-up lists for every character, in order to attempt to create a tier grid, or at least figure out which match-ups people disagree with a lot and which match-ups there’s a solid consensus on. I’ve perused the forums and found match-ups for half of the cast.

Here are the characters I have found lists for:
Dhalsim: SweetJonnyV
Sagat: gradx
Chun-Li: skankin garbage
Blanka: Mixah
M. Bison: orochizoolander
Dee Jay: Iceman
E. Honda: Thelo
Zangief: UltraDavid
T. Hawk: Jiggly Norris
Blanka: mixah - not quantitative

That means I’m missing: Balrog, Vega, Ryu, Guile, Ken, Fei, and Cammy (and Akuma I suppose).

Obviously there’s going to be arguments, but for now I want to get match-ups for each character from people who know what they’re talking about. If anybody can find (or make) match-up lists for the rest of the characters, I can compile them and put them up here.

1202

Oh don’t take anything I say on Gief seriously, I haven’t played him for a long time (and that post was from when the game first came out, anyway).

1203

No offense to gradx because he’s solid but being a sagat player as well I disagree with his matchup list and posted my own in the sagat thread.

1204

I believe you disagree about Honda, Dee Jay, and Dictator.

It may be that I really don’t know these matchups well because I lived in the HF days but I’d like to see you try your Sagat against:

Dictator, well all I gotta say is go play DarkMob. He uses a severely anti-Sagat style and it’s really annoying. He epitomizes why I say this matchup is ridiculous. blitzfu was using a similar strategy albeit not as effective. Usually when they start coming after me without the air tricks I can punish them easier and if they lose a round they revert back to dancing around the air and being a pain.

Hondas are a plenty and if they turtle its a problem, but how many are you going to win against MisterEgoTrip, RenoMD, etc? Low tiger shots are useless, they can hit his high tiger shot limbs with ease, tiger knee whiff doesn’t work against headbutts, and jump ins get punished with AA torpedos. His super goes through high tiger shots. Does Sagat have a normal that works against torpedos effectively?

Dee Jay is a tough matchup but I’ve been practicing spacing things better and i do better against him but I still need more time to figure out where Sagat stands in this matchup.

Until you or someone else proves otherwise, I’m sticking with my list. You don’t even seem to play Sagat regularly because everytime I encounter you it’s with the higher tiers.

Am I the best Sagat? Most likely not. I have improved a lot over the recent weeks after tweaking my TV and network smoothing settings and now my most glaring weakness is Dictator and characters with a lot of speed. Plus I have a habit of ALWAYS trying to reverse wakeup attacks (and i rarely piano). Keep in mind I’ve only been playing for 2.5 months after a 10+ year hiatus and my last serious play was HF in arcades.

I also have a lot of drama going on in the household which does affect my gameplay (bipolar/crazy girlfriend, infant baby, etc) so my game is also affected by this depending on how bad the day was.

1205

havent looked at jigglys list in a while but heres my take. hawks numbers are on the right (so ex, ryu vs hawk is 6-4 in ryus favor).

ryu: 6-4
ken: 5-5
honda: 8-2
guile: 8-2
blanka: 6-4
boxer: 4.5-5.5
claw: 5-5
chun: 3-7
gief: 4-6
sim: 6.5-3.5, 5.5-4.5
sagat: 4-6
dict: 3-7 (he really cant fuck up at all)
dj: 7-3
fei long: 2-8
cammy: 4-6

1206

He’s a fair player. I am sure he’s beat me a few times. But, too few to really worry about (or even remember). Though I don’t have the numbers, I am fairly certain the W/L is way in my favor.

I can clearly tell you right now who (still actively playing) has a better W/L against me on HDR XBL. Snake eyez and the damn T.Hawk of his. Megaman and that Honda of his. Oh and DGV, we haven’t played for a while. He squezzed me out the last time (shakes fist in the air) . There are players more like: Valle, Cole, Afrolegends, but they are not actively playing HDR at this time.

Truth be told, narcissus caesar is a ‘play around’ type opponent. I play lose against his guile and see what I get away with. Sometime he catches me, most of the time he doesn’t.

If anyone doubts me find him and play him yourself. You’ll see if I am b/s’ing or not about his playing ability. Out side of this post, I have nothing to gain or lose.

Narcissus likes to play the corners. He hopes you get tired of his simple fierce sonic boom keep out pattern. He falls for flash kick bait, plays sloppy when he gets desperate, and falls for fireball fakes.

Very little advanced play.

Top Guile players that I have played recently are Fifth and Some BUD … and that is it. When Wolfe played he was very good, and XBL BRIAN was the best guile player on XBL.

The fact that Narcissus Caesar mentioned my name specifically, should tell you something. I don’t even to care to mention the guy other than this silly SRK forum rebuttal.

First, if he thinks he is good b/c he beat me … I have news for him, I suck… so no real accomplishment there for him. But hey, if it is important to him … :tup: More power to him.

Second, if what you said is true, and he mentioned my name specifically. Then, I am very flattered that he thinks I am good enough to be name dropped in his quest to help proves his ability at SF2. He is definitely a winer…:rolleyes:

Play Narcissus Caesar, then play me. You’ll clearly see who is better. Then you’ll know, and knowing is half the battle!

1207

i have a feeling brian shits all over narcissus caeasr and 99% of the other guiles in the US.

1208

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: Sagat n dictator are my 2 best characters for sure but I been playing almost exclusively on random select the past 2 months…which is acutally working out great though the only one I can’t get the hang of is cammy I’m horrible with her:sad:

Sagat is one of the easiest and also one of the hardest characters to use in hdr. He doesn’t require as much matchup specific knowledge as some others like sim do but at the same time he’s 100% dependant on guessing games so if you’re not good at consistently anticipating opponent’s actions you’ll have a hard time in most matchups. You having difficulty in the matchups you posted about indicate to me that you’re simply not mixing up your fb’s as well as you could be like I said sagat is only as good as your guessing/anticipation ability allows him to be.

I’ve played you on several occasions including yesterday you know what you’re doing with him but just remember if what you’re doing against any given opponen isn’t working then…well…try something else:rofl:

I’m certainly no authority on anything fighting game related but I hope my matchup list helps:

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=168755&page=8

@ fatboy I wish I could get on xbl but 2months after it launched I got a custom stick for ps3 so I said peaccccccce 360pad:arazz: when those te sticks come out again I’ll hop on xbl and you’ll be the first one I play.

1209

All I’m going to say is that you’re missing a whole lot of people from that list. You need to read the character forums, too, if you expect to list the people who know those characters and their matchups. Plus…there are people who don’t post that often who have an even higher knowledge, too.

1210

Fuck man, give yourself more credit. that comment you made is clear evidence you’re a top player. player profiling to situation accurate judgements is a clear give away that you’re much better than you say you are. But I think that’s just you’re attempts to be humble. But I won’t be fooled!

yeah, like all of them… nohoho has always been my hero american blanka player. I’ve watched most of his vids, and our styles are very similar. Anyways, not that I’m a top player or anything, but here’s my take on blanka vs. everyone.

x vs. blanka

ryu: 7-3 (a player who can dp jumps on reaction reliable)
ken: 6-4 (same again)
honda: 6.5-3.5
guile: 5.5-4.5
thawk: n/a I haven’t played hdr hawk to know this matchup if it’s changed
boxer: 9-1
claw: 6.5-3.5
chun: 8-2
gief: 2-8
sim: 5.5-4.5 sim’s only reliable anti air is d.jab which means you can consistently trade damage all the time with everything else.
sagat: 7-3
dict: 4-6
dj: 8.5-1.5
fei long: 3-7 until I find a fei player to beat straight jump short
cammy: 4-6

1211

Of course. That’s where most of the match-ups I found came from. I just haven’t been to every single one yet.

1212

I’m learning more about how crucial spacing is (I never really had to worry much in HF because I was just better than most everyone in my area and didnt pay attention to it in HDR until I kept getting punished) so my matchup rating for Sagat is going to get adjusted soon.

My Sagat is still a work in progress and his win percentage is increasing dramatically. I’m also starting to play more in rooms which is helping me to be more precise. I still have trouble with the wrong moving coming out (tiger shot, tiger knee, tiger uppercut) since they all have similiar motions (yes, i even hit the wrong button at times!!!) but I blame that on the arc of the buttons of the TE stick

1213

Whoa!

I like to hear your thoughts as to why you see this matchup so difficult for Fei.

You too!

1214

s.strong and electricity and slide slaughter the entirety of his jump ins

straight jump lk beats chicken wings and rekkas

everything else is footsies. In fact you can just block it all forever. Kinda like vega can harass you all day with low strong, but if you just block he’ll get frustrated with wasting time and make a mistake.

yes, fei’s fierce button is hella good, but rekka poking loses to blanka’s sweep, and a fei that’s limited to low fierce poking isn’t terribly scary. I donno it’s just my feelings. Mixah rates fei much more difficult than I do. Might have to do with the caliber of fei players my experiences come from.

1215

Here is my list for ST. Linked to Nohoho’s Page, who was kind enough to value my opinion. Believe it or not, I am HUGE blanka player. He holds my number 2 sopt. I know I do a lot on the Sim Forum. But I have done just about as much in my Blanka Studies. :xeye:

Here is my list for ST. LInked to Nohoho’s Page:

Today, I would tweak this a litt bit more know (for ST). I would move Chun to 3, Claw to 4, Hawk to a 6, Gief to 6, Guile to 4.5 a and maybe a few other minor changes

For HDR it is a bit harder. Though Blanka is now ‘better,’ I don’t think he is over all that much better.

He still loses many of the same match ups. Granted, not as easly. But, he still loses. The core of the characters are still there. I think he does noticably better against, Sagat, Chun, Boxer, and Cammy. BUt, he still loses to all three except cammy. (The loss of the jumping strong really hurts Cammy in this match up.)

As far as number go, for most characters the match may go .5 more in Blanka’s favor. But, In a few cases I think the go .5 to 1 the other way: Gief, Hawk, Honda, Claw, Dic

1216

Fei long has to use properly spaced rekkas to get in (if he wants to) and can only deal damage by trading pokes and cr.fierce / st.fierce. He cant CW at all. Any CW leads to a free 360. He cant psychic DP anymore because thats unsafe. Any misspaced rekka leads to a 360. He has trouble anti airing a jump jab on his head (i think cr.fierce from far would work but thats silly for hawk to do most of the time) and splash can eat him alive. If he tries to get cute and use a CW when hawks in the air, all you have to hit is jab. This matchup isnt like fei vs gief where he only needs like 2 buttons to win. He has to play it smart and make sure everything he does is spaced right.

1217

^ A blocked CW DOES NOT lead to a free Typhoon. I’ve tried this on JumpSuit and took it pretty hard. I’m sure you know about CW into Flame Kicks, or Fei can space it right so you’re out of grab reach. The only truly reliable thing I can answer CW with is doing a Rising Hawk after I block it.

For me, fighting Fei is like fighting a Bison without the numerous threats of ToD’s and more defense.

1218

It might be reversal 360 only.

1219

I think Sirlin said the HDR Fei was around ±0 after most CWs, so yeah, you’d eat it if he goes for flamekick right after CW most of the time.

1220

Yeah, remember his words from the Fei Long thread. He said that after a hit or blocked CW, you can either Flame Kick or CW again to make yourself unthrowable.