Thelo, do you think those match up charts aren’t based on a lot of theory fighter as well as tournament results?
Sirlin and YuuVega or Jodim or John Choi or whoever didn’t sit down and play 150 matches with each character and then simply say “I won 7 matches with X character against Y character so this is how the chart should be with 7-3”.
They took their previous (high level) experiences with each character match up and based on previous playing experience and theory fighting tried to make a chart for the characters that they play.
Sirlin might have played 25,000 matches as ST Dictator in his lifetime. He can’t actually recall how many times he’s won as Dicator vs any match up off of the top of his head. So he guesses using a combination of previous knowledge and theory and makes the most accurate chart he can. Charts are supposed to be the best possible rationally estimated guess.
Tier Lists are theoretical match up charts that would play out at the highest levels of play.
I don’t know why people are so quick to smite theory fighting.
I wasn’t talking about him or anyone specifically.
Never did I say I was qualified enough to be any kind of authority on character matchups, all I said was using only one’s own experience with a character as the basis for determining how good a character is to the best of said person’s ability is ignorant. If a shoto player repeatedly loses to cammy it’s not fair to conclude that shotos are bad agaisnt cammy based solely on that experience.
BTW my boy narcissus caesar was tellin me " I slaughter fatboy and anyone with srk in their gamertag" please don’t tell me this is true:sad:
OK-SRK has enough stupid nit-picky arguments like this without us getting dragged into another one, so, while your clips are from the wrong game, which really does make a big difference, you have a point on playing keepaway against gief and i won’t disagree with you. Staying away from specific character matchups though, my original point stands-That EVERY character has weaknesses at some point in their game, to a greater or lesser degree, and that’s purposely the way they were designed. If bison (or whoever) had his corner weakness sorted out by adding a solid reversal or a teleport or whatever, he would be way overpowered-Adding a rock solid runaway game/defense to an already formidable offense would wreck the character and also fuck up the whole game’s balance. He would be everybody’s first pick, there would be no point in having 15/16 others to choose from, and the game would be a constant bison mirror match farce, and NO FUN. I like that his corner game is weak.It keeps me on my toes and makes me feel like i earned a win when i work hard to get out of a corner trap.
Look at HDR akuma.His “banned at evo” ass was purposely designed as an unbalanced, broken character in ST, and even after he was “rebalanced” he still kicks everyone elses ass to the point that it’s almost boring to play as him OR play against him because of the lack of weaknesses in his game. He’s easily selectable in HDR, and i would say he’s way down the pecking order of popular characters i run into on XBL when playing serious players.Why??..because no weakness equals NO FUN.
He was playing Gief the last time I saw him, but his Guile is where his money is at. He probably has the best Guile I’ve ever played against, on HF and ST.
He’s the best guile player I’ve played on xbl or psn but even so I have a hard time believing he’s trumped the better srk players like fatboy considering on I went roughly even with him. He claims to be “a trillion times better on stick” hmm it would be cool to see him, shit talker kjoutthe17th, and decoy @ evo.
Anyways as long as we on guile I started casually using him and noticed his overhead even with it’s nerfed startup has good enough range n priority to be used as an occasional poke and not just for the high low mixup after sb. I’ve also noticed the hitbox on rh flash behind it is pretty big and after using him for a while I can see why people would say he’s high tier. That being said he is NOT tops lol if only I could quote all the people who swore on their unborn children that he is tops.
Fatboy correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t you say he only has 1 bad matchup now?
Why is Ryu & Ken not top tier?
I was just thinking about this today.
Everytime they remake this game, they change othr character moves to be able to fight Ryu and ken.
I dont understand. I like rog, but when has someone in HDr have their moves upgraded just to do battle with him?
Things were changed with Geif to battle Vega, but still:
From what i understand, Top tier means easiest to use, right?
If thats the case, Dhalsim & Barlog will always be up there.
But still,
Everything is rotating around Ryu & Ken. So why are they not Top Tier?
Top tier means the best characters at the highest level of play. Ease of use has nothing to do with it. In some games Ryu and/or Ken are top tier. But not always. Ken is definitely not top tier in ST. Ryu was about high tier. Things are slightly different in HDR, but I doubt either would be considered truly top tier.
I think the best way for you to get clarity on this subject is to go to Sirlin’s website and read through all of the changes made on each character and why. Once you do that, start at the beginning of this thread and read your way through it.
Those two actions will help you dispel the myths you have about how this game was rebalanced and what tiers are all about.
