What is that one answer?
There’s no way its 5-5. I’ve RAPED a LOT of good Dictators on Live. Hawk has plenty of answers to Dictator’s pressure tactics, and Dictator has very unreliable and weak answers to Hawks. Its practically GG if Bison is in that corner. Bison can only run away for so long till a Rising Hawk stops him cold.
Your main problem is that you mentioned your reasoning for why that matchup is so in Hawk’s favor is that you played on LIVE.
Online doesn’t mean much.
bison gets raped by everyone with good traps. it’s a well known fact that bison can’t get out of situations requiring a reversal except by not getting in those situations in the first place.
T.Akiba’s page has Dictator vs O.Hawk and N.Hawk ranked at 5-5 for both matches.
Bothcharts from Curry Allergy put the match in favor of Dictator if you average out the numbers. Sirlin even puts the Dictator match at 8-2 ahead of Hawk.
The tiers are supposed to be at the highest levels of competitive play. This isn’t X-Box Live theory fighter…
The object of a tiers list is to show how competitive characters can be at the absolute highest levels.
bison vs hawk is slightly in hawks favor only because he can deal his damage fast and one knock down is all he needs. bison needs to play precise run away the whole match otherwise hawk is going to eat him alive. 6.5-4.5 hawks favor.
hawk kills chun li. 7-3. for me. probably realistically 6-4
I think 5/5 is fair, or maybe 6/4 in hawk’s favour at best as long as the characters are played to the best of their abilities.I can run a way aaaalllll day against hawks on XBL, and i BUTT RAPE at least 8 out of 10 of the hawks 1 play against, but that doesn’t make the matchup 2-8 for bison.It’s about top level play, and using the character to the best of their potential.Remixed bison’s new DR and st.LP priority only give him more tools against hawk, and just as hawk is working for a knockdown to get in and typhoon bison to death, bison is waiting for a mistake to get a TOD combo, or working to chip hawk away safely and get back into space.Just like you, all i need in that matchup is ONE mistake, ONE gap, and my opponent can be dead as fuckin fried chicken, and i will bide my time like a son of a bitch until i see it.
Sure, his corner game is weak, but every character has a weakness, that’s the game.They could fix it with a teleport or hi priority reversal, but where’s the fun in that?, he’d be overpowered.I may as well just go and play as Akuma. Playing around your character’s weakness and utilizing the other guy’s is part of advanced play.That’s like saying zangief is shit because his “hurting you from far away” game is weak, He has to work to get in, I have to work to stay out of the corner. If i’m getting trapped, i work on getting super meter quickly in case i need a super reversal, i practise getting the hang of using devil’s reverse to escape corner traps, or i just develop a little bell that goes off in my brain that says “shit i’m nearly in the corner…time to start thinking about getting into some space again”
I think sirlin is a little biased, cause he’s a Dictator player, and is also not too shabby with running away shenannigans vs hawk, which makes that match a lot easier, however i do agree that tier lists are supposed to be at the very TOP level of play.You’ve got to disregard silly gaps in people’s tactics where they just plain don’t know that a certain property of a certain move can beat another cleanly or whatever, and you have to forget that that you can use a certain character to beat scrubby players 99 times out of 100 online cause they don’t really know what they’re doing. Tier lists are like assuming everybody knows everything about their character, (which of course nobody does) and that’s why they’re so subjective, and un-definitive, because no-one’s perfect.They’re supposed to be about the capabilities of the character, not the player.
The closest thing i can imagine to it is if you put a super cheap CPU on top difficulty up against itself 100 times, (and i’m talking “3rd Strike GIll” cheap here) where it had all the moves, normals, knowledge, reactions, etc, etc, and countered everything the best way it knew how, with none of the human failings like laziness, or just not bothering to practise.You could then take a look at the stats to see how the 100 matches broke down.Hmmmm…sounds like a fun experiment:lovin:
Wait, isn’t 6.5-4.5 like best of 11?? :wgrin:
No seriously, 100% Correct IMO.Both these 2 characters have the potential to win this matchup, but hawk doesn’t have to work nearly as hard to do it and a fatal mistake that costs the round is far easier to make for bison.
My main strategy against hawk is “Be careful, Watch your spacing, move if you’re getting cornered, counter his pressure game and get in and out for damage safely, use stomps to chip at him, use my specials to stay the fuck away from him, don’t ever take a risk that could get you knocked down, make sure to build meter quickly every round, and don’t throw out supers hoping to get lucky, keep them for a reversal out of a corner trap in case you need it”.
Hawks main strategy is, “get in close and tick throw the fuck out of him” .
It’s obvious who’s got more chances to fuck something up…
I would rate this one 50/50 at best, or 60/40 for Hawk more likely, assuming you take both character’s full potential into account. If hawk knocks down he’s basically won, short of something very clever from dictator, but apart from that he doesn’t really have anything that a careful bison isn’t able to deal with if played properly. Bison just has to work a lot harder.
T.Hawk is probably Chuns worst fight … i would say it was more 7-3 than 6-4 in his advantage
mental note: dont try to do math when you come home from a late night of smoking. 6.5+4.5 != 10
As a sagat and dictator player I disagree with this post. He has fb’s but loses to honda? no, you’re simply not punishing jab headbutts with fb’s and you jumpin against him? no wonder you think this is a bad matchup.
A marginal advantage over geif? lol okay sure tell that to geif players, this is the most or at least one of the most lopsided matchups in the game.
If you think claw has that large an advantage that means you’re not baiting jumps with whiffed dp’s and you’re not punishing his pokes with jrh.
Dj needs to charge sagat doesn’t how can you think he loses this matchup?
Another marginal advantage over lowtier? cammy has no tools other then backfist which can be sweeped easily you can even tk hooligan lol, this is a pretty easy matchup.
Damn I bet you turtle in this matchup which is a bad idea considering your goal should be to corner dictator limiting his options severely.
What do you mean he’s so slow and bulky? I don’t get it. More then any other character sagat requires consistent correct guessing ability, if you can’t do this every matchup will seem uphill. So what if people can beat spammers? that is an invalid argument against sagat considering you’re not supposed to spam fb’s with him like I said he requires good guessing and your entire post indicates you’re basing his matchups solely on your experience rather then an objective educated guesson his full potential.
Play me on psn and show me all these strategies that beat sagat.
6-4 in dic’s favor if far away but up close it’s 6-4 for sagat.
No offense to you because you’re pretty good but it’s your lack of understanding in this matchup and not any percieved inherent disadvantage that makes this a hard matchup for you imo. I played the 3 best dictators on psn (true old school, t3r dictator, theoneandonly1980) and none of them have convinced me that the matchup is as bas as you think it is.
Letting dic corner trap you in the first place is your mistake, in this matchup you should be the one cornering him, because if you turtle then he can hs you all day from afar but if you get in close you have the advantage. Throw some fb’s and once you get him anticipating the fb’s use tk’s to get in close at which point dic will probably jumpin or sk/pc you which you should anticipate with a dp knocking him to the corner letting you advance further with tk.
Yeah, what’s up with using actual experience instead of guessing, that’s clearly the mark of the scrub, eh? I heard about a stupid method that’s based on this, it was called the scientific method or some shit. Experience and observation instead of guessing, pfft, really weak stuff, eh?
Anyway, here’s my take on Honda’s matchups these days - I’ll detail these later:
Honda vs Ryu: 3-7
Honda vs Ken: 3.5-6.5
Honda vs Dee Jay: 3.5-6.5
Honda vs Guile: 4-6
Honda vs Sagat: 4.5-5.5
Honda vs Chun Li: 5-5
Honda vs Balrog (Boxer): 5-5
Honda vs Bison (Dictator): 6-4
Honda vs Blanka: 6.5-3.5
Honda vs Dhalsim: 6.5-3.5
Honda vs Vega (Claw): 7-3
Honda vs Fei Long: 7-3
Honda vs Zangief: 7-3
Honda vs Cammy: 7-3
Honda vs T. Hawk: 7-3
uhm yeah… that IS exactly why zangief is weak.
Reading comprehension is a skill needed to not look as embarrasingly dumb as you do considering you’re disputing the validity of being able to look beyond one’s own ability with a character and objectively judge that characters full potential. You’re in the camp of “if I can’t beat character x with character y it must be a bad matchup for character y and it can’t be that my limited skill with charcter y has anything to do with it”…yes very logical.
OK…now i’m bored of this.Go check out some of Haru Tejyo’s matches on Youtube and then tell me Gief is weak.He’s the guy who’s been wiping the floor with EVERYBODY on XBL for the past few months, maining zangief 90% of the time.
I am indeed disputing the validity of someone judging the high level strength of a character which he can’t actually play at a high level. There’s a name for that concept: Theory fighter.
Are you seriously trying to say that theory fighter is more valid than actual high-level play experience?
You need to fight Thelo before saying he has limited skill.
Vs.
Now boys play nice. :wgrin: I have participated in enough lame SRK arguments in the past for all of us. No one here is qualified enough (especially myself) to truly give definitive character ratings.
The only ppl who can properly give a character match up ratings are those who can actually play the characters to their fullest potential, AND how have had enough experience against OTHER players who can play thier character/s to their fullest potential.
You need both pieces to get an accurate picture. You’re both right in combination. 
I think Honda vs. Cammy is like 9-1, lol. Hard as HELLLLLLl for Cammy.
Boooo stop playing peacemaker. I want to see a OZ v. Thelo moneymatch at Evo! :cybot:
10 bucks on Thelo.