…I think you need to check the arm hitbox in training mode for O. Sagat and R./N. Sagat before you say that…
You clearly haven’t even tested it in game otherwise you would see that starting at the 4th’s fb sagat starts beating out ryu forcing him to react because he’s going to get hit out of his fb animation if he tried to do a 5th fb. If sagat couldn’t beat out shotos fb to the point where it was clearly faster and would win him fb wars it would defeat the whole purpose of giving him faster fb’s at the expense of high/low ones making his fb’s obsolete compared to shotos:rolleyes:
why is it that every single time they are forced to jumpin after the 3rd fb? explain that to shoto players I’ve played here on srk or do they just feel like jumping in for no reason?
DeeJay is a bad matchup for my Sagat. His air trajectory is low making his FK difficult to deal with. The slide is annoying as an anti air or to knock a limb after a fireball clash, and his super nullifies fireballs when in range.
As far as the framerate on the fireballs go, it’s easy to see the point of impact on where the fireballs meet slowly start to creep up on Sagat from normal zoning distances. It’s ever so slight but it is visible nonetheless and starts to weigh on your mind. Once you begin the fireball fight you realize that you’ll eventually lose and something has to give. The speed of the fireball can be sneaky once it can get going and if you’re full screen and start walking towards them while they’re being knocked down then start a high tiger shot as they’re waking up, pretty often you can catch even an experienced player and has good dizzy potential.
My scale for Sagat is this:
Boxer 2-8
Dhalsim 3-7
Claw 4-6
Dictator 4-6
Deejay 4-6
Blanka 4-6
Honda 4-6 (Yes, I say 4-6 because the matchup is really difficult for me)
Cammy 6-4
Chun Li 6-4
Ken 6-4
Ryu 6-4
Zangief 6-4
Guile 7-3
Fei Long 7-3
T.Hawk 7-3
hawk is 4.5-5.5 definitely. stand rh that motha fucka ALL DAY.
LOL @ the last 3 posts.
-blz you’re not a good troll no one thinks you’re funny.
-gradx that tierlist is completely off it looks like your basing it off your personal experience instead of the characters maximum potential.
-grid I think it’s safe to say you’re the only person on srk who thinks it’s that close.
Right.
Chillax bro. We went through the same ordeal in the Akuma Banned thread before it closed. He might not be the most mannered dude on the board, but he still has an opinion to express, however badly it comes out sometimes.
Zoo knows what he’s talking about. I may not agree with him, but I’ve played him, and he ain’t no scrub.
I think most ppl don’t realize that Sagat’s tier listing is gonna be one of the hottest topics on SRK until Evo. IMO
cant tell if you’re just being sarcastic or something cause you like hate me or what.
That was sarcasm, and no, disagreeing with you doesn’t mean I hate you grid.
At best sagat is #4 at worst he’s #7.
I actually agree with you on this one. I thought he was better when I first started playing, but actually playing AS him, I feel a bit weaker than I should be sometimes.
I had him at #3 on ST. I think he might have slipped behind some other high-tier characters, but he still should be solid in a lot of matchups.
EDIT: I acknowledge that there’s a lot of good arguments on both sides of the fence. I am perfectly content to wait until his tier status is proven in a tournament setting.
It’s probably not free, but it’s pretty horrendous, some people say it’s worse than that too.
Also, what I actually said, which is a point currently being succesfully used over in the SFIV tier list, was that in an ideal “tournament environment” Sagat overall isn’t that fantastic against everyone else being implicated as potentially top tier. I mentioned Guile and Honda because a lot of people are also implicating them as being amongst the best characters (or in Guile’s case…“were”), and there are other characters that beat those two worse than he does. His bad matchups against the better characters in the game are pretty clean counters against him and the characters he beats are characters that can be beaten far more cleanly than he can by other characters (Claw beats Guile worse than Gat can, and any other shoto can beat Honda better than Gat can). So if you look at what Im saying, you will notice that he starts losing points as being a good overall choice in the ideal tournament environment when by looking at his overall matchups there’s really nothing special he does that a good bunch of characters can’t do better. For instance, if I wanted to use a shoto as a backup, looking at the matchups it probably wouldn’t be Sagat, especially if my actual main was someone like Boxer or Claw.
Your latest appraisal seems closer to what I personally feel about it, with Sagat at #7 or so.
BTW I have you on my friends list, we should play some time so I can get beat up for a little while =D
Are there any really good Sagats on Xbox Live? In the short time I’ve been playing HD Remix, I’ve rarely seen anyone play him. Even Cammy and Fei Long seem to have more representation.
Sure he doesn’t cleanly win in most of his good matchups (which are 6-4) but IMO besides boxer, sim, n claw sagat has more favorable matchups then anyone else and having only 2 characters to worry about (even if they are popular) sounds like a good tournament choice to me.
I’ve played a few really good sims n boxers (some from here on srk like blitzfu and shoo) and from those matches alone it’s clear to me that sim is worse for sagat then boxer. VS boxer if I can get a little distance then I can lock him down in the corner with fb mixups and even with bufflo’s invincibility I feel confidant once I get boxer away from me, hell I’ve gotten perfects against good boxers a few times. However against sim it’s more of an uphill battle because there’s no reliable strat that will consistently get me the w against him. I’m no top player but I’m decent with sagat and if someone asked me how to beat sim I’d tell them…try to get sim scared of your fb mixups and then once he starts sticking out those normals a lot you can trade jrh and hope for the best.
See the difference? as it is IMO 3.5-6.5 v boxer and 3-7 v sim.
Sorry man, I cant tell online. I know people think I come off as an ass (even though I dont try to, when I want to, you’ll know). Really the matchup is not 7-3. 6-4 at worst. someone please show me how its 7-3 in play. i dont want to go along thinking its an easier matchup and underestimate sagats i play offline.
sagat cant fireball safely except from MAX range. hawk can st.rh and hit his limbs which will either beat it clean or trade in hawks favor. if he anticipates a low one, he can dive over it and be in sagats grill in no time. its also really really easy to safe jump against gat for some reason. also, its hard to dp hawks j.jab reliably.
random fun fact, after a 360 in the corner against gat, its impossible to safe jump him. he recovers so much differently than everyone else in the corner. (i dont think you can safe jump honda in the corner after a 360 either).
Only good Sagat I have ever played on Live is Tyram SRK. I rarely play on Live though, so I am probably missing a few.
Best Sagat on XBL hands down is KJ out the 17th.
xOH MY GODx is another excellent sagat
oh my god blows. bad. i member reading he used a programmable pad but that cant be true. hes just no good.
kj out the 17th is pretty good.