Reversal Teleport sends Dhalsim back into the corner.
St lp is an awesome aa now that it’s beefed up (beats every jumpin except thawks jlp and it even stops all torpedo type moves), and starting 2 frames of dr are invincible so he can use it to go through fb’s. In hdr dic can juggle with straightup jmp I use it to aa a lot as well so these buffs combined with already being able to stuff fb startup with st mk/hk and punish fb’s/dp’s with hs give him a slight advantage against shotos. I have a much moderately easier time against shotos in hdr then vst:tup:
That being said the dic player has to be mindful of these advantages and know when to use them and when to fall back on gimmicks so it’s not an easy match let alone easy to make having these advantages help towards a win.
I thought the glitched worked that the FIRST reversal teleport you do is COMPLETELY random and that it stores where you go. Then, any reversal teleport you do after that first one goes in the same direction.
I could be wrong.
Actually any teleport executed at (or near it appears) reversal timing will go in a random direction.
SweetJohnnyV and I did some testing a few weekends ago. I performed a teleport, into teleport over and over again, all using the same direction. I found that even though the reversal attack** message didn’t come out the teleport would randomly switch directions. I would assume that this is a bug, however it could also have been put in on purpose to prevent Dhalsim from teleporting all over the place.
**- I believe this is because the opponent in practice mode was not attacking at the time I executed the teleport on the reversal frame. But I’m not 100% on that.
Sagat’s fireball is still faster going across the stage, however his recovery in HD with the added 4 frames would make it recover even slower then Ryu’s. This means instead of the monster 11-37, it’s 11-41 (Exactly like HF), which means, that Ryu having 11-40 on his Hadouken giving Ryu a faster recovery on the projectile. If some of you go…that’s only 1-frame and isn’t significant your wrong, because HF. Ryu’s hadouken of 11-39 was only a 1-frame less on recovery from his ST counterpart and yet that made a huge differential in his projectile game in comparison, which is the same case here.
However, due to Sagat having a faster projectile, they are now both equals in this department, because Sagat’s Tiger shot maybe faster, but Ryu having the better recovery will be able to get back to throwing out another Hadouken before Sagat can. So there is no real fireball advantage in Sagat’s favor in HD involving projectiles.
I don’t believe this match up is even a 6-4, but more like closer to a 5-5. Ryu still has a lk hurricane kick to go over Low Tiger Shots, and the fact that Ryu can now Fireball fight near evenly is arguably the biggest factor into this match up, back in Vanilla ST, you had to move in, while in here, you can stay and zone if you’d like.
Those extra 4 frames for Sagat made a whole world of difference in this match up.
Sagat definitely loses fireball fights with ryu from normal zone distances. The extra frames really punish him and force you to be more versatile in your approach
seriously, sagat is mid tier status
Sagat does NOT lose the fireball fight to Ryu. It’s even. O.Sagat won the fight, and N.Sagat lost it. But R.Sagat goes even with Ryu. Bet it. And Sagat is mid tier now, possibly just below Ryu and Ken.
I used to think Sagat was mid-tier until recently. His crossup into dizzy like 90% of the time is seriously fucked up.
I still find this really hard to believe.
He’s definitely not the best character in the game, and he’s definitely fallen from his probable top-3 status in ST, but I find it hard to believe he’s fallen around 6 spots to mid tier. Who the hell has gotten that much better?
True but no matter what the frame data says playing the game clearly shows that from midrange to full screen sagat edges out ryu in fb fights.
LOL @ sagat being midtier. He has 2 very bad matchups (sim, boxer), 2 slightly bad matchups (blanka, claw), and has a slight advantage over everyone else that isn’t toptier but that’s undisputed hightier.
You can’t deny frame-data because Seth even states they added 4 extra frames to the recovery of Sagat’s Tiger Shot. You equate this to 11-37 to 11-41 easily, again, this is HF fireball speed. How can you refute it? Sagat doesn’t edge out Ryu, because Ryu recovers a tad faster.
The fireball fight is near dead even, and is no advantage to Sagat anymore. O.Sagat killed Ryu in this department, because not only did Ryu’s Hadouken get shafted going into ST, but O. Sagat obtained his beast like CE speed projectiles once again.
However, taking their frames into factor, the two are so close in their frame start ups and recovery that the differential is absolutely minimal. Back then, Sagat’s advantage over Ryu was because he could out zone Ryu however this isn’t the case anymore, and with this being the biggest factor to his advantage over Ryu, it’s a much more even match.
However, I do agree with you though OZ, Sagat is not mid-tier, he’s way better then that.
I believe the problem lies in the fact that all the characters he loses to are all characters that are being implicated as being top tier. Boxer almost beats him for free, and Sim beats him clean as well. The other two people like to talk about are Guile and Honda. He only goes 6-4 vs. Guile and Honda vs. Gat is a LOT better than Honda vs. Ryu. On a tournament scale he just doesn’t do well by and large against the characters currently being discussed as likely candidates for being really reliable characters, and his bad matchups are either blow outs or slightly bad whereas his good matchups are only slightly in his favor and very much winnable by the other character. If you go on matchups amongst the better characters he does poorly overall, so there’s better choices, especially if you are looking to play more than one char.
So by your very own definition, Sagat is not top tier right?
Apparently you can’t read because I never denied the frame data I simply said that regardless of what it is the fact remains that if sagat and ryu are near full screen away from each other and start doing fb’s sagat will inevitably win.
If you can’t see that then you might as well say chun can’t store super or that honda’s jab hb doesn’t go though fb’s.
Boxer doesn’t beat gat for free, if boxer gets in close gat has a very hard time but if he’s far away then the matchup is in gat’s favor the problem is it’s alot easier for boxer to get in then it is for gat to keep him out. IMO the matchup is 3.5-6.5 so it’s not a free win for boxer but he definitely has a huge advantage same goes for sim.
Why are you pointing out gat v guile being 6-4? I’ve said gat goes 6-4 against most of the cast, and yeah honda has an easier time against him then shotos because hp hb can’t go over shoto fb’s lol but gat still has a slight advantage.
LOL @ you saying he does poorly overall while admitting his matchups are better then most characters.
Do you read my posts before quoting them? lol I never said he was tops I said he was definitely somehwere in hightier.
his fat ass arms are so huge you can hit him with like ANYTHING full screen
Maybe if you bothered to read what I posted, I even told you that the difference is now so small, it’s no longer an advantage to Sagat. You’d have to fireball fight for a long period of time to even start seeing a significant show, it’s like Ryu vs HF. Sagat, after awhile, Ryu will slowly start to win…does this give Ryu a “good advantage” in the fireball fight? NO.
You should do what you preach son.
Cmon Grid, that’s a little over the top. Sagats arms have always been huge, but it never stopped him from completely owning. Constantly shooting Tiger Shots will definitely get him slaughtered. Mix high and low ones up won’t. Other than the fireball speed, Sagat isn’t much different from O.Sagat.
I think Sagat is still top of the mid tier. Those extra frames of recovery make a difference. I seriously dont member his arms hitbox ever being that big.
I actually like dj over sagat as well in this game. what’s everyone else think?