True, he is not as strong as ST Sim. But he is still good, better than above average IMO. What has changed so much that would make you say he is just average? I ask in ignorance because I am genuinely curious myself. My HD knowledge is pretty limited, especially on characters I don’t play =]
Thelo: Him being at the top of the list is probably due to the fact I still have nightmares/am bitter about STSim beastings by DGV and AfroCole on GGPO That, and DeeJay/Sim is a funky match up, so I am probably being a little biased.
He might not be #1, but he is still up there. He still does all the things he does in ST, just not as well.
Hawk, I dunno. I would have to be persuaded about Hawk heh.
Dhalsim’s super does 50% less damage than ST, is not invulnerable like ST and it charges slightly slower. And his noogie throw range is shorter.
I think the rest of the cast just got stronger in general. I think he’s at the right level now. Still capable of winning any match but he actually has to work to win matches that were easy in ST.
Dhalsim is still #1 in my book, right after Akuma. His zoning defense, in the hands of a master, is unbreachable. He’s got an answer for everybody’s offense, except Akuma’s Air Hadoken traps, and if they had just fixed his reversal Teleport glitch in Remix, he’d have that option against grapplers in the corner (I still get teleported to the exact same spot I was in).
The nerfs he got, Noogie range, hittable Super do not weaken him enough to drop a few tiers IMO. Plus the easier controls for Yoga Flame and Upflame (which is sometimes a mixed bag for me, when trying to do st.Strong to anti air from crouch, I get Flame) just help his game even more.
But seriously, where are all the good Dhalsim players? I can count on one hand all the good Dhalsim players on both PSN and GGPO (although I haven’t been on GGPO long). I’ve tried getting good with him, but he requires too much patience and too much reading of your opponent’s mind. Plus, his limbs are hard to control. But he is definitely still #1.
I love to play as hawk too, but when I pick him sometimes I really feel his shortcomings. Maybe he just doesn’t fit my playstyle. He can have a bit of a hard time getting in to do anything good. Of course, if he gets in he is a beast, but that can be a big if.
I doubt you destroying me on HDR will really prove anything. Wait for some tournament results and we’ll see.
I have to disagree. I play Sim, and he shuts down Akuma’s air fireball game pretty badly. I also think Sim beats Akuma, which is why I think the god-tier talk is suspect. If I lose to an Akuma, it’s because of psychic DP’s (which all Shotos have), not the air fireball.
You’re underplaying the value of the Noogie nerf. It really hurts Sim’s game against Vega and Chun Li, who already have him at a disadvantage. Try zoning either of those characters and let me know how it goes. Then try noogie trapping them with no range on the throw. I don’t understand your logic where you don’t play the character, few people do, and yet you’re so quick to pronounce he’s #1. What are you basing that on? Common sentiment in the Dhalsim thread seems to be that he is not as good as before. I still think he’s above average, but overrated by people who don’t have experience with HD Remix Sim.
I also agree with Kuroppi that Zangief and T-Hawk are not getting the respect they deserve. Haru Tejyo and Kuroppi show the true potential of those characters. Especially since this is an online game (where latency is a factor), it’s laughable that people think those characters are mid-low tier. How do you guys do against Kuroppi and Haru? I have yet to hear of anyone beating them 7-3 or 9-1.
Not trying to be a dick, but I don’t think this really proves much, other than that Tejyo and Kuroppi are really, really good.
Again, I think we’ve kind-of hit a standstill until we get some solid tournament data to chew on.
I also think you can have one bad matchup and still be broken. What if you were 9-1 in every matchup except for one 4-6 matchup? The only two viable characters would be the original god character and the one counterpick to him. Not saying that reflects reality, but it shows that a broken character can still have one bad MU.
Agreed. I think he’s just below the top tier now, and certainly not #1. Basically, between Dhalsim’s nerfs and everyone elses buffs it makes most of his matches a little worse. If anyone wants, I’d be happy to go into detail on why/how I think each of his match-ups has changed.
I don’t need proof. I also think people are sleeping on hawk. But I’d like to play you anyway to get some more practice against the big guy
100% agreed.I was unlucky enough to run into one this evening in ranked, and i got DESTROYED.It felt like there was nowhere safe to go on the screen, and once i was in the corner, game over.A cornered dictator (my main) isn’t a happy dictator at the best of times, but against this dude i had no hope of getting out.
It struck me that a good dhalsim has a normal attack that will answer just about anything you can throw at him and can control the match and keep you zoned almost all the time.His attack priority combined with his range is FUCKING SCARY in the right hands, and the ease he can dizzy you with is ridiculous.
If Akuma’s matchups were really 9-1, this line of reasoning would be valid, but I don’t think they are. Haru has in his bio that he disagrees with everyone saying Akuma kills characters like Zangief for free, and I’m sure he can prove it.
The players may be really good, but they are just demonstrating the full potential of each character. Just like not every Ryu is Alex Valle, I think he shows how good a character can be at a high level. Isn’t that the whole point of a tier list? Characters played at the highest level, not at an average level?
See this is what I’m talking about. You’re unfamiliar with playing against Dhalsim (because there are few people who play him), so you’re scared that he’s some super character and you’re building him up in your mind, when he’s not as good as you’re hyping him up to be. You just need more practice in that matchup. [media=youtube]1TMo0zYZUKM"[/media]because he knows he’s just one combo away from winning the round at any minute. Atonalism’s Bison is the same way.
Which character would you use? I mean, in Champion Edition, Bison killed EVERYONE except Guile, who could fight him decently. That didn’t make Bison any really less God Tiered.
Do you think you could fight Akuma with any character and do well? Or is it just Dhalsim? If Dhalsim is the only person who can beat Akuma pretty consistently, doesn’t that mean we’d see nothing but Sim and Akuma at the highest levels? You’d HAVE to learn Sim to beat Akuma, no? Just in case you ran into one?
I’m not disagreeing with you, I’m just curious to see what your stance on that train of thought is.
Whoa, that’s a whole lot of presumption for one post.
To set you straight, i’m not at all unfamiliar with him, i’m not scared of him, and i know he’s beatable.I beat 9 out of 10 dhalsims i meet, but like i said, in the right hands he can be lethal.Point is, he can totally upset your strategy and has a large bag of tools to keep you zoned if you KNOW how to use him.He can SERIOUSLY take you off the offense, and control the flow of a match way more than lots of the cast, which IMO gives him a huge advantage.It doesn’t mean he’s innately unstoppable, but i would rather run into an expert ryu, ken, sagat, honda, user etc than an expert Dhalsim user, just because a good dhalsim can make so much of my offense irrelevant.
No disrespect intended.Your dhalsim is very good, no question but i have seen better, and the guy who beat me earlier was one of the best i’ve seen.Period.With reference to your clip, Giving dictator any kind of space to set up pressure strings using stomps and other specials (0.43, 1.22, 1.52 ) is a bad idea unless you have an answer for them every time, and letting him out of the corner (0.16, 1.11, 1.21) is a very bad idea.To give you a yardstick for what i’m talking about i’ve been playing SF for 18 years, I know all of the dictator tricks that were being used on you in this video and am at least on a par with lord bbh’s dictator, and i’ve played dhalsims that made me feel utterly, utterly helpless.
Don’t presume people don’t know what they’re talking about.:nono:
Well Chrisfighter77 (xbl) beat me fairly decisively with dhalsim a couple of times, he’s currently 102/8 win loss on HDR, with 32 perfects.There have been a couple more really good dhali players, but i’m not too good with names.
If i run into any i’ll post back here.Fingers crossed i don’t.:wgrin:
That, and DeeJay/Sim is a funky match up, so I am probably being a little biased.
).