The way I play that match with him is to not let him in tick range. I try to zone with HHS, standing roundhouse, and headbutt. But if I get knocked down it’s over. So that’s how I play the match with him. Don’t get knocked down. 
Just for the record, I believe Cammy vs. Honda is 10-0 in VANILLA ST, but in HD Remix, it’s infinitely better. At 9-1. Which, compared to 10-0 IS, mathematically speaking, infinitely better. 
- James
That’s exactly right. Not as easy of a task as it sounds, but it is pretty much spot on. Against good to great Zangiefs, Honda can dick around a bit more and just destroy Zangief casually. But against the top Giefs in the world, Honda really has to pay attention because one SPD CAN equal loss.
And I think megaman, here, said it as a partial joke (what I’m guessing by the smiley), but I think it should be taken VERY seriously: don’t get knocked down. If you play the match right and really key in on that idea, your chances for winning increase. AND if you can reversal properly on wake-up, it becomes much harder for Gief to win (Piano Method still works, because ALL THREE Headbutts have invulnerability at LEAST up until the first hitting frame). If you get good enough at Reversals when getting up (it’s the only time you can be guaranteed to get the Reversal if the Gief is really good at masking when he’s gonna attempt the SPD) and try really hard to never put yourself in a position to get knocked down, the match really is bad enough to be 9-1 or 8-2, mostly because you only really have a chance to win this match up even against semi-good Hondas if you are in the top 1 percentile of Zangief players.
- James
You are spot on as usual James with everything other than this! I meant that 100% for realz. I added the smiley because it’s not easy at all. Haru makes that the hardest out of any Zangief that I’ve ever played.
Really? I must be playing that match incorrectly. I’d put it around 7-3, still in favor of Honda, but not 9-1.
Well considering this is an online game, I think you guys should take that into account when talking tiers. 95% of the time this game is going to be played, it’s not in a local MP environment. If that 100 ping lag makes a difference in the match, your discussion should reflect the environment most people are likely to experience the game as. I definitely don’t think Honda Zangief is 8-2 at a high level online.
No projectiles makes Rog a tad easier to deal with than Deejay. It gives the Blanka player a chance to actually think than react to constant maxouts.
Having played Afro’s Deejay and Rog I’d say I’d rather play his Rog. Deejay can just shut Blanka down cold.
Either way, it sucks vs both.
Really? You’d rather play his Barlog.
Haha.
Btw, are you a really good player?
You must be awesome to prefer that.
I’ve beaten his dee Jay a couple times…never Barlog though. (on GGPO)
I’ve watched a few of Decoy’s ST matches on GGPO (Blanka only) so I can’t give a fair assessment in that regard, but I can tell you in Hyper Fighting he was certainly a Top 3 online player over XBL, and not just his Blanka.
Agreed, I’ll take his Balrog over his Dee Jay any day. Both are extremely hard to deal with, but Honda has a bit better time against Balrog. He can even Ochio Balrog’s super… :wgrin:
Damn, Zangief is so much fun in remixed ST compared to classic ST. I recently got on GGPO and I can’t do jack with him. Not SPD, not Running Bear Grab, nothing. All thanks to the easier controls in remixed ST. Even though I never really used Zangief a lot in classic ST, I was at least able to pull of SPDs at least 50% of the time. Since remixed ST dropped, I can do nada with him in classic ST, zero, big fat fail.
I’ve always been a huge fan of classic ST over ALL other SFs, but I’m definitely loving remixed ST and all it’s balance changes (almost all). The only beefs I have are stored Oichio, Fei’s nerfed lockdown game, Hawk’s broken Typhoon and the still-broke Akuma.
I think Zangief, Honda, Guile and Ken are the most improved characters in Remix. And I think Fei and Hawk are the most nerfed characters.
He’s one of the best Blankas online, easy.
So, where are we with the tier list now? The game has been out a fair few months, and while there’s a certain lack of high level tournaments, are we coming closer to a clearer tier list?
Roughly, to me, it looks something like this, though they are not listed in order within the tiers:
Top
Dhalsim
Claw
Ryu
Upper
Boxer
Sagat
Chun Li
High
Ken
Guile
Honda
DJ
Mid
Dictator
Zangief
Blanka
Low
Fei Long
Cammy
T Hawk
Is claw really still top tier ?
Yes. You imply that you don’t think he is so explain your reasoning because his matchups haven’t drastically changed and the only thing he lost was walldive knocking down which although near broken was not what made him top4 in st. He didn’t lose what made him part of the 4gods (normals, specials, throw range, an answer to everything basically, best ground game.)
@ boxer being upper. He along with claw, akuma, and probably sim are still better then everyone else.
Nothing in particular just figured that since he seems overall nerfed compared to st he would drop to atleast upper.
Even if he doesn’t “need” wall bullshit to win it must have helped in alot of his matchups ?
I mean… not really. We’re all still playing Theory Fighter HD Remix in this page. Tournament results will begin to verify what we got right and what we (inevitably) got wrong.
I think most of the tierlists posted in this thread are fairly close to accurate.
Mine right now goes:
Akuma (broken / banned)
Dhalism
Boxer
Claw
Sagat
Chun Li
Ryu
Dee Jay
Bison
E. Honda
Guile
Ken
Zangief
Cammy
Blanka
T. Hawk
Fei Long
I think the “middle 12” characters (Dhalsim through Zangief) are all very tournament viable, not just for pony zangiefs but for everyone, and we’ll see a lot of them spread throughout tournaments.
I think they go something like this, in order.
S
Akuma
A
Sim
Rog
Claw
A-
Sagat
B
Ryu
Dee Jay
Chun Li
Dictator
Guile
B-
Ken
C
Honda
Blanka
Zangief
Cammy
D
Fei Long
Hawk
Just wanted to throw this out there for fun. Theory fighter for the draw.
Okay, I keep seeing Dhalsim as top tier in this thread, like it was something so obvious it doesn’t need to be explained, and I have absolutely no idea why. He seems firmly average to me.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
You probably don’t see it because barely anyone plays a really good sim online. But damn, once you find one you die an embarrassing zone death.
I agree. I’ve played many good Sim players now and while they can hold their own, he’s not nearly the force he was in ST. I think he’s above average at best.
And I still say no one is giving Hawk enough respect!