To be fair, this is a “tier thread” and Josh is entitled to his opinion. He is off on a few things, but posting stuff like
isn’t what I would call constructive criticism.
To get this thread back on track, I want to know which match you guys think is the most lopsided.
Is it Akuma vs Zangief?
Or Ryu vs Honda?
Honda vs Cammy?
Boxer vs Blanka?
Personally, I think it’s Honda vs Zangief. There is just so little Zangief can do against a good Honda, while Honda has so many options and counters to whatever Zangief can do. This match is so lopsided, that if I were a betting man, I would put money on Honda all the time, irrespective of skill level, if I didn’t know the 2 ppl playing. If I knew the Zangief player was a master, and the Honda player was a scrub, I might just put money on Zangief…maybe.
^ Agree. I think Boxer vs Blanka isn’t as lopsided as Dee Jay vs Blanka, that could figure in your list, but maybe its just me. But nothing compared to Honda vs Zangief.
I main Dhalsim and Honda is one of my secondaries, and I think that Gief vs Honda is definitely harder than vs Sim. I also think Gief vs Honda is maybe even a little tougher in HD than it was in ST. Here’s why:
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In HD, Honda bounces back when he does his Ochio. While this was supposed to be a nerf, it actually helps vs Gief. In ST, if Gief gets in on you and you get an Ochio off before he SPD’s, you’ll land right next to him where there’s a high chance of Gief now SPD-ing you anyway. In HD, you’ll bounce back to a much safer range.
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In HD Honda’s super is much more reliable on hit. So, once you’ve charged meter, which is easy with all the HHS you throw out, you can now choose to super him when he jumps instead of doing jab torpedo.
I think these changes matter more than the minute changes that help Gief.
I think the Gief vs Sim match-up changed a bit. But all in all, I think it’s mostly about the same difficulty:
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Gief’s lariat now hits low at the beginnig. When used correctly, this makes Sim’s pokes less safe. And in a match-up where all it can take is one knockdown to get in, this matters more than you’d think.
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Sim takes longer to charge up his super. This means that Gief can do a few more random jump-ins and hope Sim screws up his AA.
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However, Sim can now reversal with his super which I think makes up for those other changes.
IMO… :wgrin:
This. The dude was even like YEAH AT HIGHER LEVELS THOUGH THE MATCHUP COMES DOWN TO LIKE 6-4 NOT 9-1. then we showed him the matchup chart where THE BEST GIEFS IN THE WORLD said it was roughly 8-2, with the worst being 8.5-1.5. then he spouts off some shit about taking it into consideration but still sticking where he stands.
i told him i can show him how easy this bull shit matchup is. have him play gief, and ill play honda.
I don’t think Honda Zangief is 9-1 like some of you are saying. My friend LA Akira was ranked top 30 before the ranking system went to shit, and he has the best Honda I’ve played against. Yet when he ran into Haru Tejyo, there was nothing he could. Once 'Gief gets one SPD in the corner, it’s over. He couldn’t jab headbutt on wake. Now this might be due to them playing online from California to Japan, where there may be a split second of lag, but that is enough to throw off your timing. If they were in the same room, the result could be different, but they’re not, and most of the times when people talk matchups in this game, it’s for an online game where minimal lag can have a factor.
Vladan AU also has a great Zangief who can kill you from one SPD, but he’s in Australia, so I always have lag when playing him. Yet I can’t reversal out of his tick throws either. I haven’t played Haru yet, but I hear he has great mix-ups with his ticks, so you never know when the SPD is coming in the chain. I’d like to see some of you guys destroy him with Honda. Please post vids.
I play both Rog and Deejay and I think Rog has it way easier against Blanka. Can someone point out why Deejay should have an easier time with the match?
million times harder to reversal online. especially California to Japan. thats huge.
also - i dont think its 9-1. i think its 8-2.
Cr.Jab and Upkicks beat everything Blanka has. Mix it up with random Max Outs against a turtling Blanka, and the matchup is all Dee Jay.
Yes, it’s true that Oichio is easier for Zangief to deal with in Remix, but that doesn’t make up for all the other options Honda has against Zangief. Honestly, all Zangief needs to deal with Honda, is an invincible Quick Lariat. Not even COMPLETELY invincible, just more than it is now, like 3/4 invincible, instead of 1/4 invincible. And an unstoreable Oichio. That would allow Zangief to advance without fear of Torpedos, and allow him to escape the Sumo Splash traps reliably.
Online or offline, all Honda has to do to avoid tick setups is reversal Torpedo or reversal Splash on wakeup. There’s nothing Zangief can do. Once I get an average Honda in an SPD, yes, the match is usually over, but that’s cuz most Hondas screw up their reversal Torpedo timing. Or they try to be smart and block the first tick. But then I get smart, and mix it up with st.Short > cr.Forward > Running Bear Grab. LOL
What do you guys think of Guile vs. Dhalsim now? I don’t know enough about either character to make any sort of judgement, but I heard the match was awful in ST.
Same here, my Honda couldn’t do anything against haru tejyo’s tick setups, mostly because Japan to Montreal lag time stuffed 100% of my reversal attempts. I’d love to have a match with him under better conditions, though.
When someone refuses to acknowledge indisputable facts that everyone here has known for years not to mention ranking charts by the worlds best I call that person a dumbass.
Finest KO!
There’s a difference between having your own opinion and refusing to accept well known facts, fuck constructive criticism when someone is that ignorant.
I don’t think there is one match that is significantly more lopsided then the rest.
geif v honda would probably be my #1 bet too though jchensor has posted that honda v cammy is 10-0 citing the optimal strat for cammy is to hit honda once and then runaway and not get hit till time runs out:rofl: Sim v gat, fei vs gat, and boxer v cammy are up there too, but I’d put geif v akuma as #2.
Done.
Fatboy has said it was 9-1 at best in st and that now the match is closer to even because st hp under sb’s only works closeup on startup of sb and rh flash makes it a lot easier for guile to punish sims long range game. I only casually use both but if you ask me it’s still pretty though not nearly as bad as it was in st.
Where did I say that? Sim does very well in ST vs Guile. But, I don’t think it is that high.
I apologize I most likely misquoted you but I’m sure you said something like that I’ll give it a look once the search function comes back. This reminds me of nelson’s guile against that sim player in t8 evo06 LOVED the ending to that match:rofl:
Barring Akuma vs Zangief which I know nothing about, I would peg Honda vs Cammy as the most unbalanced matchup out there. At least, if Zangief or T. Hawk ever breach the Honda wall, they can convert that into a command throw and threaten to win off of it - if Cammy ever breaches the Honda wall, she gets some ridiculously low damage and can’t even reasonably push the pressure.
Cammy trying to jab Honda’s torpedos is pretty hilarious. She gets like two pixels’ worth of life off of each jab, and if she ever misses due to not mashing hard enough, she loses a LOT of life. And that’s not even counting Honda’s hands, which beat Cammy’s thrust kicks every now and then. The payoff matrices in Cammy v Honda are pretty ridiculous.
I’ve played some “balls-out” cammys before using honda that just absolutely stay in your grill the entire match, constantly attempting crossups up into dizzy combos and doing split second SRKs against HHS/headbutt. That’s probably her only real answer, get in once and shenanigans the rest of the way.
NO worries. I am certainly no authority on ST. I just love to play. The Sim Guile match is definately weighted towards Sim is ST. Sirlin did a good job with it overall in HD. I don’t think Guile should have a overhead, let alone one with the reach it has, but that is just is a humble opinon of an ST fanboy, and isn’t really worth squat! 
My current estimate is 6-4 in Sim’s favor. However, it’s still kind of tough for me to gauge this matchup because there’s only a few really solid guile players I know, and I only get to play them occasionally. Anyway, I think the important changes to the match from ST to HD are these:
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In ST, far crouching mp/hp were one of your best tools. However, even in ST, you already couldn’t constantly spam them because really good guiles knew that standing LK would beat that. So you could throw the occasional poke out there, but mostly you used those punches on reaction to him throwing a sonic boom. In HD, the only way to cleanly hit him when he throws a boom is to throw out those pokes psychically, with the same timing you’d use to stuff a shoto from fireballing. If you use those pokes on reaction you’ll trade. That can be useful sometimes to finish him off, but it’s usually a bad trade for Sim. So, there’s still some use for those pokes, but they’re way worse.
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Guile’s new HK flash kick and better super make it tougher for sim to go over sonic booms.
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If Guile does get in on you, his overhead and better combos make him more dangerous.
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All in all, this was a very tedious and grinding match in ST. In HD, it’s even more tedious. If both players play it safe, half the rounds will end in a time out. The only time it gets exciting, from a spectators view, is if one of the players tries something risky or if the Sim player screws up and lets Guile get on top of him.
On a side note, I’m really surprised I don’t see more good guile’s. People used to love Guile back in the day and I think he got some nice upgrades in remix. Not sure why people are sleeping on him…
lol
If ANYONE’s moves can known as Shenanigans it should be Honda.
The 500 lb. flying Sumo Wrestler.
I think Sim Guile is 7-3. In a ranked match, it’s going to be very hard for Guile to win three rounds, since he either has to get lucky with some jump in guesses early or land a major combo (e.g., cross up short, 3 low shorts, razor kick) to win a round. Odds of him winning three rounds like that are slim. The Sim player would have to make some pretty big mistakes for that to happen.
You can still poke the hell out of Guile with low jab, strong, or fierce (all long range). If he’s spamming standing short, he has no razor kick or sonic boom charge. He’s also vulnerable to standing forward, drills, whatever you want. Guile’s standing short is cool for a surprise hit here or there, but as a constant strategy, considering he has to go to neutral to get it out, it’s not what Guile wants to do all round. Even if he hits you with one, you can easily get that damage back with a blocked fireball or missed sonic boom later in the round.
New RH Razor Kick is alright. It provides a legitimate knockdown, which can be followed up with high/low guessing games on the overhead, but if the Guile player’s spacing is off, you can punish the overhead easily with any short range move like d/b forward or strong. The only time you should be vulnerable to the overhead is when you get knocked down, which should happen maybe once a round from a blind razor kick or psychic low RH tripping a long range low punch. This is Sim’s match to lose (by messing it up). If he plays semi-decent, Guile is in a world of hurt.